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    Good lesson for all from Penn State

    Pretty good SI article with the following....

    If anything positive can come of the Penn State scandal, it's this: Hopefully every coach, athletic director, president and administrator in the country read every page of Thursday's report and absorbed the horror of their counterparts' mistakes. Hopefully they paid particular attention to the group's 120 recommendations to avoid future such occurrences, some of which are unique to Penn State, but most of which would serve any university well.

    Hopefully -- because we have little choice but to trust that in times of crisis, when our cherished universities have to make tough choices that could harm a popular sports team, the leaders will do the right thing. I, for one, am no longer naÔve enough to believe they always will.

    Penn State Freeh Report should be lesson for college football - Stewart Mandel - SI.com



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    Re: Good lesson for all from Penn State

    Here's another suggestion
    -Don't rape little boys in the shower, and don't cover it up

    That is about the only lesson you can learn from this fiasco.



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    Re: Good lesson for all from Penn State

    what about the Penn St. WBB coach kicking players off her team because they were gay?

    Think the lesson here is more than sexual abuse, it is that Penn St. has a long history of protecting its image and coaches first to the extreme.... of letting a child predator still work for the company even after committing crimes because of his "friend" status with the godfather, and his ability to "fundraise" for the university.

    We are talking about a public university that uses private university "laws" to keep its public employee records "private."

    How much does Cael make? Oh, Penn St. is a "private" university.

    The problem is much bigger and deeper than this incident.


    Last edited by twistedredbird; 07-13-2012 at 08:51 AM.

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    Re: Good lesson for all from Penn State

    They were talking about this during the afternoon on local sports radio here in Chicago. to be honest, I think there is a good amount of the Penn St. faithful that won't ever get it. It amazes me the amount of people calling in and still defending Joe Paterno. "He went through the chain of command, what do you expect him to do?" was pretty much what everyone said in his defense. You knew the defenders right off as well, becaus they are still referring to him sa JoPa.

    I understand not wanting your hero to have a tarnished memory, but seriously, the evidence is out there. Weather they want to believe it or not, his legacy is now that of allowing this to happen.



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    Re: Good lesson for all from Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by TigerCyJM View Post
    Here's another suggestion
    -Don't rape little boys in the shower, and don't cover it up

    That is about the only lesson you can learn from this fiasco.
    Gee thanks for pointing out that valuable lesson...

    IMO nothing will be learned from this. I thought after the McQueary (sp) grand jury testimony that this would slowly develop into a massive coverup. There were just to many things pointing that way to ignore it. People were saying that Joe Pa was above that and could never cover up something this terrible, then they wanted to say he was too old and confused to handle it, and now I am hearing that what he did as whole at Penn State outweighs one big mistake. This is completely false, everything that man stood for is now tarnished. This isn't recruiting violations or even something like Bountygate that we have seen recently in the NFL. No, this is the WORST coverup in sports history.

    And not because of how long it went on or the extent of the coverup, but just simply who and what actions they were protecting. There is a reason why they say that guys like this get "taken care of" in prison. Because even common criminals have better morals then the leadership at Penn State. Our future, our children are the most precious commodity we have as a society and they must be protected at all costs. At Penn State however, it wasn't worth ruining their legacy. It makes me ashamed to even be a fan of college football.



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    Re: Good lesson for all from Penn State

    I'm sorry, but people who think this is only a Penn State problem are kidding themselves. There are reasons that pedophilia is consistently underreported. And when it is prosecuted, it's many years after the first occurrence and a series of victims were abused. Some of our core legal principles pose significant obstacles to child sexual abuse differently than other criminal activity. Things like innocent until proven guilty and the right of the charged to face their accuser make these cases tricky. I'm not saying those principles should be changed, but we need to be aware of their challenges.

    What do you do when you know somebody has been accused but the DA didn't file any charges? What do you do if you hear rumors or 2nd hand info but don't have solid enough information to testify under oath? What if you think there's a relationship that seems a little weird or that their might be fondling going on but you have no evidence of rape?

    I think we all need to rethink how we would react in these situations. Over and over again you hear of somebody giving the accused the benefit of the doubt because they seemed like a nice person and excusing away things like showering with a minor when they deny any contact occurred. The Penn State stuff goes beyond that, but people need to wake up if they think stopping pedophilia is easy.



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    Re: Good lesson for all from Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by LivntheCyLife View Post
    I'm sorry, but people who think this is only a Penn State problem are kidding themselves. There are reasons that pedophilia is consistently underreported. And when it is prosecuted, it's many years after the first occurrence and a series of victims were abused. Some of our core legal principles pose significant obstacles to child sexual abuse differently than other criminal activity. Things like innocent until proven guilty and the right of the charged to face their accuser make these cases tricky. I'm not saying those principles should be changed, but we need to be aware of their challenges.

    What do you do when you know somebody has been accused but the DA didn't file any charges? What do you do if you hear rumors or 2nd hand info but don't have solid enough information to testify under oath? What if you think there's a relationship that seems a little weird or that their might be fondling going on but you have no evidence of rape?

    I think we all need to rethink how we would react in these situations. Over and over again you hear of somebody giving the accused the benefit of the doubt because they seemed like a nice person and excusing away things like showering with a minor when they deny any contact occurred. The Penn State stuff goes beyond that, but people need to wake up if they think stopping pedophilia is easy.
    What do you do? You do SOMETHING. Joe Paterno and the rest at Penn St did NOTHING. And saying that it might be more difficult than you think is not an excuse. Anybody who does NOTHING is a dirtbag.....second only to the one committing the act themselves.



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    Re: Good lesson for all from Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by Clone9 View Post
    What do you do? You do SOMETHING. Joe Paterno and the rest at Penn St did NOTHING. And saying that it might be more difficult than you think is not an excuse. Anybody who does NOTHING is a dirtbag.....second only to the one committing the act themselves.
    Oh how easy it would be to live in a world of black and white.

    Nobody is saying Paterno wasn't wrong in things he did and didn't do. But these situations are not as easy as some people make them out to be. And the lack of realization about this is one of our major problems as a society and justice system in regards to pedophilia.


    When all is said and done, more is said than done

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    Re: Good lesson for all from Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by Clone9 View Post
    What do you do? You do SOMETHING. Joe Paterno and the rest at Penn St did NOTHING. And saying that it might be more difficult than you think is not an excuse. Anybody who does NOTHING is a dirtbag.....second only to the one committing the act themselves.
    Now this is not true at all.

    They didn't do 'nothing', they inquired as to how the investigation was going, they made sure Jerry Sandusky was treated 'humanely'. They noted how they could have blowback later if how they handled it became known because the behavior continued, they let the man retire with honor, gave him a big payout, granted him an unconventionally given emeritus rank so that he could continue to have access to the facilities where he had been seen to be abusing kids.

    Oh, no, they were far from doing 'nothing'.



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    Re: Good lesson for all from Penn State

    The lesson to be learned (and enforced by the NCAA) is that the athletic programs ARE NOT to be valued above all else. This is at the root of the problem (and probably always will be).



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    Re: Good lesson for all from Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by Clone9 View Post
    What do you do? You do SOMETHING.
    But what is SOMETHING? Because in each of the 3 cases I honestly don't know.

    If the DA doesn't file charges, am I supposed to do my own surveillance and investigation.

    Is there an anonymous tip line to report suspected pedophilia or do I have to have enough evidence that I'm willing to make a public accusation?

    This case has definitely raised my awareness about some of these issues and I'd like to think I'm less likely to say it's not my problem, but I'm still not sure what to do in instances that are more gray.



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    Re: Good lesson for all from Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclonepride View Post
    The lesson to be learned (and enforced by the NCAA) is that the athletic programs ARE NOT to be valued above all else. This is at the root of the problem (and probably always will be).
    Absolutely. And because of that, Im beginning to think that the Penn State Nittany Lions need to go away forever. The university and athletics all stay and continue, but itís a complete rebranding and washing away of the old with a turnover of most all positions.  Essentially a new university. Hell, I bet the University of Phoenix is looking for east coast expansion.  "Saving" the Penn State Nittany Lions was the motivation for these peoples acts, we need to prove that doing what they did will actually bring it down.  If its allowed to continue with little to no interruption (a few year bowl ban or forfeiting games does nothing and is probably disrespectful to everyone else), those four gentlemen and whomever else we donít know about will have been successful in defending their love of the Penn State nittany lions at the expense of the welfare of innocent children. An agent acting on behalf of the university represents the university. Why do you think agents get paid so much to act on behalf of entities? Its because the agent is expected to do what is right always, otherwise the university suffers. The people responsible must suffer, and the university must suffer just the same.



  13. #13
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    Re: Good lesson for all from Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by LivntheCyLife View Post
    But what is SOMETHING? Because in each of the 3 cases I honestly don't know.

    If the DA doesn't file charges, am I supposed to do my own surveillance and investigation.

    Is there an anonymous tip line to report suspected pedophilia or do I have to have enough evidence that I'm willing to make a public accusation?

    This case has definitely raised my awareness about some of these issues and I'd like to think I'm less likely to say it's not my problem, but I'm still not sure what to do in instances that are more gray.
    Remember that JoePa was this guy's boss, and despite the Penn State signs, those were JoePa's facilities.

    Even if he didn't believe that JS was capable of abusing the boys, at a minimum he knew that JS was showering with underage boys in the PSU facilities. That alone puts PSU at risk of getting sued by someone who makes a claim, true or not (in this case, sadly true). So even if no charges were filed, the leader is responsible for correcting any action that could put the employer at risk of a lawsuit.


    Bare minimum: "Hey Jer, can you come into my office? Thanks, I'm going to shut the door. Let's talk...it has come to my attention that you were showering with one of the 2nd mile kids in the locker room, and that there was at best 'horseplay' and at worst, inappropriate contact between you and the child. Let me be clear on this...it is unacceptable for you to shower with an underage person in the Penn State University facilities, because it puts the university at risk of a lawsuit. If you are ever again naked in a room with an underage person, you will be terminated. I cannot allow the university to be subject to legal action."

    Personally, I would add "and if you're ever found to be abusing children, after I fire your ***, I will follow you to the parking lot, gut you and hang your entrails from the statue of me that's right outside." but maybe that's going too far.



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    Re: Good lesson for all from Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by 00clone View Post
    Remember that JoePa was this guy's boss, and despite the Penn State signs, those were JoePa's facilities.

    Even if he didn't believe that JS was capable of abusing the boys, at a minimum he knew that JS was showering with underage boys in the PSU facilities. That alone puts PSU at risk of getting sued by someone who makes a claim, true or not (in this case, sadly true). So even if no charges were filed, the leader is responsible for correcting any action that could put the employer at risk of a lawsuit.


    Bare minimum: "Hey Jer, can you come into my office? Thanks, I'm going to shut the door. Let's talk...it has come to my attention that you were showering with one of the 2nd mile kids in the locker room, and that there was at best 'horseplay' and at worst, inappropriate contact between you and the child. Let me be clear on this...it is unacceptable for you to shower with an underage person in the Penn State University facilities, because it puts the university at risk of a lawsuit. If you are ever again naked in a room with an underage person, you will be terminated. I cannot allow the university to be subject to legal action."

    Personally, I would add "and if you're ever found to be abusing children, after I fire your ***, I will follow you to the parking lot, gut you and hang your entrails from the statue of me that's right outside." but maybe that's going too far.
    That's one of the more mind-blowing parts of the story to me, that apparently nobody thought it might be a good idea to have an off-the-record chat with Sandusky to try and get him to deal with his ****. No one even tried to tell him to take it off-campus, which would have been just as despicable but at least would have made a sick kind of sense.



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    Re: Good lesson for all from Penn State

    Quote Originally Posted by HGPuck View Post
    Oh how easy it would be to live in a world of black and white.

    Nobody is saying Paterno wasn't wrong in things he did and didn't do. But these situations are not as easy as some people make them out to be. And the lack of realization about this is one of our major problems as a society and justice system in regards to pedophilia.
    Making sure a sick freak stays away from children is a pretty easy decision for me. It was black and white, Sandusky was wrong, and anyone who knew about it needed to everything possible to remedy the situation, not permit it to happen.



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