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    Re: ***OFFICIAL BIG 12 EXPANSION THREAD 2.0***

    Quote Originally Posted by UNIGuy4Cy View Post
    Not from Chip Brown, that guy is connected.
    Not sure if or not, but Chip Brown's the guy who declared the Big 12 100% dead... twice.



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    Re: ***OFFICIAL BIG 12 EXPANSION THREAD 2.0***

    Quote Originally Posted by CyFan61 View Post
    Not sure if or not, but Chip Brown's the guy who declared the Big 12 100% dead... twice.
    And it was done if not for last ditch efforts from the "Forgotten Five"



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    Re: ***OFFICIAL BIG 12 EXPANSION THREAD 2.0***

    Quote Originally Posted by UNIGuy4Cy View Post
    And it was done if not for last ditch efforts from the "Forgotten Five"
    Not arguing with you, but the fact is that he's been really wrong multiple times before.



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    Re: ***OFFICIAL BIG 12 EXPANSION THREAD 2.0***

    Quote Originally Posted by aeroclone View Post
    1.)You are ignoring a couple key points in this scenario. Number 1 is that FSU and Clemson have no leverage. We don't have to do anything to convince them to make the move. If expansion continues, their league (which is already 5th in the pecking order) is going to crumble underneath their feet. The SEC and B1G aren't interested. To FSU and Clemson, the Big 12 is the last life boat on the Titanic.

    2.)Second, after all this shakes out, a scheduling agreement with the ACC adds no value because the future ACC won't be much better than the MAC. After all of this is done there will be the big 4 football conferences, and then everyone else. If we wanted to lock in a major scheduling deal with somebody, it would be one of the other three. A Big 12 vs SEC or Big 12 vs Pac 12 challenge would be way more beneficial to us than Big 12 vs remaining ACC/Big East schools that weren't good enough to get invited to the Big 12, B1G, or SEC.
    Man, oh man...

    1.) First, they do have some leverage. It is better for the Big 12 they be the first moves- it gives the Big 12 a better chance of convincing other ACC schools they may want. No one exactly knows if the ACC will even be there to schedule- think of it as a negotiation ploy from the Big 12, if you must. Also, no is leverage is needed. We are giving them nothing. Instead of playing some FCS and MAC teams, we say we will play ACC-Big East teams one OOC game...

    2.) Cinci, Louisville, Syracuse, BC, Miami, Wake, Pitt, UConn, South Florida, etc are still better than FCS and MAC games. The fact you suggested otherwise is incriminating to your critical thinking on this rumor. The deals with the 4 major conferences would be years away, and will be post-season based anyways. You are nuts if you think enticing FSU and Clemson to make the first jump with an early September weekend with the remaining ACC-Big East schools is costing the Big 12 anything.



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    Re: ***OFFICIAL BIG 12 EXPANSION THREAD 2.0***

    Quote Originally Posted by swarthmoreCY View Post
    Man, oh man...

    1.) First, they do have some leverage. It is better for the Big 12 they be the first moves- it gives the Big 12 a better chance of convincing other ACC schools they may want. No one exactly knows if the ACC will even be there to schedule- think of it as a negotiation ploy from the Big 12, if you must. Also, no is leverage is needed. We are giving them nothing. Instead of playing some FCS and MAC teams, we say we will play ACC-Big East teams one OOC game...

    2.) Cinci, Louisville, Syracuse, BC, Miami, Wake, Pitt, UConn, South Florida, etc are still better than FCS and MAC games. The fact you suggested otherwise is incriminating to your critical thinking on this rumor. The deals with the 4 major conferences would be years away, and will be post-season based anyways. You are nuts if you think enticing FSU and Clemson to make the first jump with an early September weekend with the remaining ACC-Big East schools is costing the Big 12 anything.
    Why do we have to negotiate with any of them? If they are talking to us, they are coming to our league for a more money and better competition on the football field. We don't need to sweeten the pot by telling them they can keep playing BC or Wake. The fact that they are playing BC or Wake today is part of the reason they need to change conferences in the first place. When the B12, B1G, and SEC get done with the ACC it is going to be a steaming creator. At that point, we can pick up whoever we want. The offer is continued football relevance.

    We are not going to be the first mover here. Any school that has reasonable hopes of an SEC or B1G invite is going to wait them out before they would come to the Big 12. The pecking order here is pretty clear.

    Schools are going to continue to schedule how they schedule until something major changes in the post season to force their hand. Even if we get to 4 conferences, they will still play a couple punching bag games per year, maybe one top tier opponent, and then their league schedule. If they want to use one of those old ACC teams, great, but there would be no reason at all to put together a conference level agreement with them. Seriously, of those remaining teams, half of them were mid-majors like 10 years ago.



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    Re: ***OFFICIAL BIG 12 EXPANSION THREAD 2.0***

    There is a movement to 4 major conferences and it will happen sooner than later. Before any move is made TV networks have to be involved and part of it to make the money work. I also think not having a Big 12 network helps the Big 12. There are networks that are already in place. that wanting programing, like YES covering Big 12 games. The schools can provide their own network for thier fans, and games can be placed by the conference. There is no overhead costs of running a network, no start up costs, no relying on football to pay the bills for all the other programs.


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    Re: ***OFFICIAL BIG 12 EXPANSION THREAD 2.0***

    Quote Originally Posted by aeroclone View Post
    1.)Why do we have to negotiate with any of them? If they are talking to us, they are coming to our league for a more money and better competition on the football field. We don't need to sweeten the pot by telling them they can keep playing BC or Wake. The fact that they are playing BC or Wake today is part of the reason they need to change conferences in the first place. When the B12, B1G, and SEC get done with the ACC it is going to be a steaming creator. At that point, we can pick up whoever we want. The offer is continued football relevance.

    2.)We are not going to be the first mover here. Any school that has reasonable hopes of an SEC or B1G invite is going to wait them out before they would come to the Big 12. The pecking order here is pretty clear.

    3.)Schools are going to continue to schedule how they schedule until something major changes in the post season to force their hand. Even if we get to 4 conferences, they will still play a couple punching bag games per year, maybe one top tier opponent, and then their league schedule. If they want to use one of those old ACC teams, great, but there would be no reason at all to put together a conference level agreement with them. Seriously, of those remaining teams, half of them were mid-majors like 10 years ago.
    1.) You are being silly if you think there are no negotiations. It is undeniably in the Big 12's best interest for FSU and Clemson to move first. There is a huge difference between playing a team once every several years (and likely to never play them) then being in an actual conference with them. Seriously.

    2.)Again, the desire is to force or entice those that know they are not getting an SEC or BIG invites to move first, rather than wait. It is a game of chicken, and like you have said, the Big 12 has leverage. If the Big 12 only has two spots and can offer more money than the ACC, it is too risky for several of the ACC schools to not move first.

    3.) A former mid-major is still a step up from MAC and FCS schools, there is no arguing otherwise. The Big 12 would benefit from some type of Big 12-ACC/Big East OOC agreement. Probably 2 for 1, maybe even 3 for 1, deals that are now given out to far worse programs than those.


    Last edited by swarthmoreCY; 01-23-2013 at 01:22 PM.

  8. #1853
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    Re: ***OFFICIAL BIG 12 EXPANSION THREAD 2.0***

    Quote Originally Posted by Wesley View Post
    "And for your $200 question, will you take Miami, FSU, Clemson, and Virginia for national prestige if it meant you had $2M/yr less in your school coffers? "
    I'm still waiting on Mr. Don Duck to tell me, I mean, advise me on what his, I mean the correct answer to this question is. The last thing I need is a duck scolding me for the wrong answer.



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    Re: ***OFFICIAL BIG 12 EXPANSION THREAD 2.0***

    LOL At Baylor fans wanting to get rid of Iowa State. At Best they are the 5th most popular college in the state of Texas. If the Big 12 did break up, they wouldn't have a home, as the MWC would take Texas Tech and TCU and have the state of Texas Market covered.


    Good times on Hawkeyenation.com after the 2010 Wisconsin Game!


  10. #1855
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    Re: ***OFFICIAL BIG 12 EXPANSION THREAD 2.0***

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorm View Post
    LOL At Baylor fans wanting to get rid of Iowa State. At Best they are the 5th most popular college in the state of Texas. If the Big 12 did break up, they wouldn't have a home, as the MWC would take Texas Tech and TCU and have the state of Texas Market covered.
    He's an idiot, as many/most Texans are, and nobody bit on his comment. But I have to say, I LOVE this idea:

    Full merger with the SEC.

    Texas
    Texas A&M
    Baylor
    TCU
    Tech
    LSU

    Oklahoma
    Oklahoma State
    Kansas
    Kansas State
    Iowa State
    Missouri

    Arkansas
    Ole Miss
    Mississippi State
    Alabama
    Auburn
    Florida

    South Carolina
    Georgia
    Tennessee
    Vanderbilt
    Kentucky
    West Virginia

    4 6 team divisions. Play 5 of your division, plus one other division each year. Play everyone in 3 years, but it's an 11 game conference schedule. Imagine the football each week though. There would be at least 2-3 marquee games each weekend, plus with the inventory from football and other sports, the tier 3 network would look like ESPN most days. Also, every division (not to mention the entire conference) is contiguous, making it a real division/conference setup for travel purposes.

    Imagine the money that each school would pull in in that setup. Basically own the most populated (and growing) section of the United States for college sports purposes. The years that our Pod plays the Arkansas/Alabama pod would be epic.


    This would be a football ratings powerhouse! **** the B1G! Damn that would be awesome!


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    Re: ***OFFICIAL BIG 12 EXPANSION THREAD 2.0***

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorm View Post
    LOL At Baylor fans wanting to get rid of Iowa State. At Best they are the 5th most popular college in the state of Texas. If the Big 12 did break up, they wouldn't have a home, as the MWC would take Texas Tech and TCU and have the state of Texas Market covered.
    LOL is right.

    If the Big 12 was going to kick a team out, there wouldn't even be a vote. The other 9 presidents would just slowly turn to look at Ken Starr in unison, who would immediately threaten to sue everyone before Bowlsby called security and Starr (and Baylor) was forcibly removed.



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    Re: ***OFFICIAL BIG 12 EXPANSION THREAD 2.0***

    Quote Originally Posted by swarthmoreCY View Post
    1.) You are being silly if you think there are no negotiations. It is undeniably in the Big 12's best interest for FSU and Clemson to move first. There is a huge difference between playing a team once every several years (and likely to never play them) then being in an actual conference with them. Seriously.

    2.)Again, the desire is to force or entice those that know they are not getting an SEC or BIG invites to move first, rather than wait. It is a game of chicken, and like you have said, the Big 12 has leverage. If the Big 12 only has two spots and can offer more money than the ACC, it is too risky for several of the ACC schools to not move first.

    3.) A former mid-major is still a step up from MAC and FCS schools, there is no arguing otherwise. The Big 12 would benefit from some type of Big 12-ACC/Big East OOC agreement. Probably 2 for 1, maybe even 3 for 1, deals that are now given out to far worse programs than those.
    Why does the Big 12 need to move first? The reason that FSU and Clemson seem to keep getting tied up to the B12 is because nobody expects them to get an SEC of B1G invite. Whether they make the first move and jump to join us, or wait for the SEC and B1G to kill the league before they move, the end result for us is the same. For everyone else in the league worth a damn, they are going to be waiting on the SEC and B1G to move before they jump in with us. And whoever is left after an SEC and B1G expansion will be happy to join us no matter what we offer, because they will be left in a league that may not be much better than the MWC.



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    Re: ***OFFICIAL BIG 12 EXPANSION THREAD 2.0***

    If we have learned anything it's that killing a conference is difficult. The Big 12 was DOA and somehow is thriving now. I can't see the ACC brand being wiped out. Weakened for sure, but something called the ACC will probably crawl out of the ashes.

    The death of the ACC as we know it sucks. Duke, UNC, and NC State are on top of each of location wise. A lot of traditional rivalries on the chopping block again. The golden goose better watch it's ***. The ax is sharp and ready



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    Re: ***OFFICIAL BIG 12 EXPANSION THREAD 2.0***

    Quote Originally Posted by KnappShack View Post
    If we have learned anything it's that killing a conference is difficult. The Big 12 was DOA and somehow is thriving now. I can't see the ACC brand being wiped out. Weakened for sure, but something called the ACC will probably crawl out of the ashes.

    The death of the ACC as we know it sucks. Duke, UNC, and NC State are on top of each of location wise. A lot of traditional rivalries on the chopping block again. The golden goose better watch it's ***. The ax is sharp and ready
    You're right. Every time someone gets poached it just turns out that another smaller program gets called up to the bigs. And once they're at the table I don't think they're getting sent back down necessarily. And while each of these conferences thinks they're killing a smaller one it appears that they're simply diluting the power of teams overall and over the long haul. By adding more and more as teams get poached it simply puts more teams at the table and gives ESPN and Fox a larger inventory of teams to choose from. They've convinced SEC, B1G, PAC, etc that they need to scarf up the key names to add value for when the conference-ageddon does come, but in reality they're likely building up more minor teams into bigger teams by doing this. ESPN & Fox may be smarter than these idiot Conf Commissioners.


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    Re: ***OFFICIAL BIG 12 EXPANSION THREAD 2.0***

    Quote Originally Posted by aeroclone View Post
    Why does the Big 12 need to move first? The reason that FSU and Clemson seem to keep getting tied up to the B12 is because nobody expects them to get an SEC of B1G invite. Whether they make the first move and jump to join us, or wait for the SEC and B1G to kill the league before they move, the end result for us is the same. For everyone else in the league worth a damn, they are going to be waiting on the SEC and B1G to move before they jump in with us. And whoever is left after an SEC and B1G expansion will be happy to join us no matter what we offer, because they will be left in a league that may not be much better than the MWC.
    This is really simple: the Big 12 needs to go to 12 in regards to the new post-season. The only schools that can be #11 and #12 in the current business model are rumored to be FSU, Miami, ND, and Clemson. Say a network is willing to pay $60 million for FSU and Miami or Clemson in the Big 12, plus cash for a CCG. Those schools respond that they will only come to the Big 12 if a block of ACC schools comes with. Clearly, under the current model, that will cost the Big 12 some money and is a no go. Next, you try a compromise with the win-win that is a OOC scheduling alliance.

    Or, you could sit on your hands, do nothing as a conference, and hope other conferences pick apart the ACC prior to 2014, leave the Big 12 what it wants (and hopefully alone). The end result may be the same, or it may not be. You do what you can to get who you want to commit, successful or not. Your comment about FSU being tied to the Big 12 is yet another ignorant statement. There is no settling there. FSU has been tied to the Big 12 before the SEC and BIG were even thought to be a threat to the SEC. This has nothing to do with FSU's position with the BIG or SEC, and everything to do with the Big 12's business model. There are programs very much worth it to the Big 12 that are likely on the outside of the BIG or SEC, one of those being FSU.



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