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    Re: A sobering article on Pakistan

    It is interesting that you posted this particular article. At the time the U.S. invaded Iraq, I considered Pakistan to be a far greater threat. The primary threat of Iraq was that it might someday present nukes, Pakistan already presents that risk.



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    Re: A sobering article on Pakistan

    Quote Originally Posted by alaskaguy View Post
    It is interesting that you posted this particular article. At the time the U.S. invaded Iraq, I considered Pakistan to be a far greater threat. The primary threat of Iraq was that it might someday present nukes, Pakistan already presents that risk.
    The key difference is that we are supporting, and supported by, the current leadership in Pakistan. Obviously it is a critical area to US interests.



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    Re: A sobering article on Pakistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclonepride View Post
    The key difference is that we are supporting, and supported by, the current leadership in Pakistan. Obviously it is a critical area to US interests.
    Officially the government in Pakistan co-operates with the U.S. However, either the Musharref government is unwilling or unable to weed out al-Qaeda. The instability of the Musharref government combined with it being a nuclear power is why Pakistan presented a far greater threat to U.S. interests than Iraq.



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    Re: A sobering article on Pakistan

    When do we invade Pakistan?



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    Re: A sobering article on Pakistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormin View Post
    When do we invade Pakistan?
    We don't. We wait for India to do it.



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    Re: A sobering article on Pakistan

    Quote Originally Posted by herbicide View Post
    We don't. We wait for India to do it.
    Ah yes, the wild card. I really do believe if Pakistan underwent a revolution of some sort, we would be right in there almost immediately, screw Iraq, Iran, etc. for now. Let's hope it doesn't happen.



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    Re: A sobering article on Pakistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclonepride View Post
    Ah yes, the wild card. I really do believe if Pakistan underwent a revolution of some sort, we would be right in there almost immediately, screw Iraq, Iran, etc. for now. Let's hope it doesn't happen.
    If an extremist revolution were to happen and succeed, I'd almost guarantee India would not tolerate it. Neither would China. Western Europe would get awful nervous too. I do not think we (USA) would even have to be the lead in a coalition against it.

    Politically I'd prefer another country lead such a coalition. India/China would bark the loudest about this one, let them lead it. It wasn't too long ago it seemed India and Pakistan were headed for war anyway.

    Economically, we are already mortgaging the country away with the help of the current wars. We don't need another one, especially if we know other nations will fight it.



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    Re: A sobering article on Pakistan

    Quote Originally Posted by herbicide View Post
    If an extremist revolution were to happen and succeed, I'd almost guarantee India would not tolerate it. Neither would China. Western Europe would get awful nervous too. I do not think we (USA) would even have to be the lead in a coalition against it.

    Politically I'd prefer another country lead such a coalition. India/China would bark the loudest about this one, let them lead it. It wasn't too long ago it seemed India and Pakistan were headed for war anyway.

    Economically, we are already mortgaging the country away with the help of the current wars. We don't need another one, especially if we know other nations will fight it.
    I agree. I would guess that at the very least, we would provide carrier based air support.



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    Re: A sobering article on Pakistan

    Quote Originally Posted by herbicide View Post
    If an extremist revolution were to happen and succeed, I'd almost guarantee India would not tolerate it. Neither would China. Western Europe would get awful nervous too. I do not think we (USA) would even have to be the lead in a coalition against it.

    Politically I'd prefer another country lead such a coalition. India/China would bark the loudest about this one, let them lead it. It wasn't too long ago it seemed India and Pakistan were headed for war anyway.

    Economically, we are already mortgaging the country away with the help of the current wars. We don't need another one, especially if we know other nations will fight it.
    The problem is, anyone who messes with Pakistan gets to glow in the dark.


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    Re: A sobering article on Pakistan

    Quote Originally Posted by herbiedoobie View Post
    The problem is, anyone who messes with Pakistan gets to glow in the dark.
    I'm not so sure it would come to that, bear with me on this one.

    I believe that all extremist groups (Taliban, etc.) use their beliefs as an excuse/tool for their tactics and rise to power. I do not think these groups are much if at all different than that of the "freedom fighters," warlords, and "revolutionaries" elsewhere in the world and in history. They merely seek power. Their rallying cry is their extremist/distorted views on their religion.

    Now, I do not think these groups are unintelligent. They would realize the situation they are in, and be careful with their rhetoric, as they know if they made other nuclear players (read: India) nervous enough to strike first, they would not survive for a counterstrike.

    I could very well be wrong, but when push comes to shove, they are about self-survival and realize lighting up the night would be their end of existence. I think even the mention of using such weapons could very likely bring about a pre-emptive nuclear strike.

    I also think because of the sensitivity and risk of this issue, there are probably a ton of "foreign agents" in Pakistan with their fingers on the pulse of this issue.

    I hope we never find out.



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    Re: A sobering article on Pakistan

    Quote Originally Posted by herbicide View Post
    I'm not so sure it would come to that, bear with me on this one.

    I believe that all extremist groups (Taliban, etc.) use their beliefs as an excuse/tool for their tactics and rise to power. I do not think these groups are much if at all different than that of the "freedom fighters," warlords, and "revolutionaries" elsewhere in the world and in history. They merely seek power. Their rallying cry is their extremist/distorted views on their religion.

    Now, I do not think these groups are unintelligent. They would realize the situation they are in, and be careful with their rhetoric, as they know if they made other nuclear players (read: India) nervous enough to strike first, they would not survive for a counterstrike.

    I could very well be wrong, but when push comes to shove, they are about self-survival and realize lighting up the night would be their end of existence. I think even the mention of using such weapons could very likely bring about a pre-emptive nuclear strike.

    I also think because of the sensitivity and risk of this issue, there are probably a ton of "foreign agents" in Pakistan with their fingers on the pulse of this issue.

    I hope we never find out.
    I think it is a little more difficult than that. If Islamic extremists somehow came to power in Pakistan, and decided to provide nuclear weapons or technology to a terrorist group, how easy would that be to track? Would the public support a nuclear counterstrike without a clear set of fingerprints? How long would we be able to investigate before acting? It's a scenario we really can't afford to allow to happen.



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    Re: A sobering article on Pakistan

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclonepride View Post
    I think it is a little more difficult than that. If Islamic extremists somehow came to power in Pakistan, and decided to provide nuclear weapons or technology to a terrorist group, how easy would that be to track? Would the public support a nuclear counterstrike without a clear set of fingerprints? How long would we be able to investigate before acting? It's a scenario we really can't afford to allow to happen.
    The more logical conclusion would be that the new government (even if it is an Islamic extremist government) would jealously guard its arsenal of nuclear weapons. They would be aware that the United States would attack the supplier of nuclear weapons or technology to a terrorist group. They would also be aware that they would be the prime suspect for any such transfer of weapons.

    To back up my claim, there are many nations that possess biological weapons. Iran is one such nation that has had biological weapons for decades. Nevertheless, nations do not seem to be transferring biological weapons to terrorist groups. Why would it be different in the case of nukes?



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    Re: A sobering article on Pakistan

    Quote Originally Posted by alaskaguy View Post
    The more logical conclusion would be that the new government (even if it is an Islamic extremist government) would jealously guard its arsenal of nuclear weapons. They would be aware that the United States would attack the supplier of nuclear weapons or technology to a terrorist group. They would also be aware that they would be the prime suspect for any such transfer of weapons.

    To back up my claim, there are many nations that possess biological weapons. Iran is one such nation that has had biological weapons for decades. Nevertheless, nations do not seem to be transferring biological weapons to terrorist groups. Why would it be different in the case of nukes?
    I agree. While it would be hard to 'prove' where the weapon originated from, I think we would have a pretty darn good idea. There are reports that the CIA, NSA, or whatever gov't agency has a better idea of where all of the ex-USSR's nuclear weapons are. I am sure our intelligence agencies track other nation's nukes as one the highest priority, if not the highest.

    Also, imagine if a nuke was used on American soil, the public would be so outraged the masses would support turning the middle east into a nuclear wasteland.

    Remember the reaction to 911? The rest of the civilized world would squarely be in our corner, and these groups realize that. Not saying they would support a nuclear strike, but the global policy on the terror issue would synchronize to ending terror at all costs to prevent another nuclear incident.



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    Re: A sobering article on Pakistan

    India and Pakistan have already come darn close to nuking each other. If that happened, I dont' know what the US would do.



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