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Thread: MESS named OC

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    Re: MESS named OC

    Quote Originally Posted by GMackey32 View Post
    You lose ALL credibility for your posts for not being able to spell RHOADS correctly. Seriously, it's even worse when you are a Cyclone fan and can't spell our coach's name right...
    the rep i'm getting says otherwise.


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    Re: MESS named OC

    Quote Originally Posted by Clonefan32 View Post
    The difference is we aren't coaches. Either Schiano is a genius and we were playing the best defense in college football or our coaches couldn't figure out a way to scheme around their defense. The man's job is to figure out a solution, he didn't.
    The solution WAS in place... The dropped passes, the numerous over and under throws to WIDE open WRs, inopportune penalties... None of those were part of the gameplan but had we executed on even half (pulling that out of my butt) its a different game and we're in it or win it at the end. Gameplan for Rutgers was fine - our execution was pathetic. Thats players and thats coaching...



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    Re: MESS named OC

    Quote Originally Posted by Clonefan94 View Post
    I agree mostly with your thinking here. What worries me though, is that there really hasn't been any consistent improvement in our offensive production the 3 years that Herman was here. I don't think we necessarily should have been lighting the world on fire by now and I do think lack of an exprienced QB and our starting running back hurt, but at the end of the day, everything seemed the same as it did in year one.


    My main problem is with how many 3 and outs we have in the course of a game and the few drives we get going, not finishing. This has been a consistent problem at ISU for longer than just the Herman Era and I expected to see more improvement than what I saw. As I said, I never expect us to start throwing up 50 points a game. I did expect us to sustain more drives though and have more consistency on our offense.

    Yes, lack of QB can be a part of that, but I didn't see much difference from last year to this year and last year we had an experienced QB. In colelge, you have to plan on a new QB every 2 or 3 years. Eventually that excuse gets tiresome.

    Personally, I saw quite a bit more efficiency this year and a lot less head scratching. Particularly when JB got in his groove. Even in some of the losses we still had a chance to win because the offense kept the defense off the field for a at least a little while.
    That was with a RSFr QB that will only get better. If he could take his completion % from 50 to 60+, we would have sustained a lot more drives.
    Turnovers were really critical on a lot of drives. Also, WR drops were still and issue this year. A lot of that was on the veteran WRs. The younger guys will have to play next year and we will see if they can be more sure handed.

    Overall I saw moments this year that I hadn't seen in the previous two at all. The youth and inconsistency are issues that can be corrected with more time and consistency in the coaching staff should help some with that.

    Messingham still has to step up. Hopefully he and CPR have a plan. (I'm going to keep saying this until I see the plan.)



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    Re: MESS named OC

    Quote Originally Posted by jbhtexas View Post
    Yes, the point is about the offense. This is a thread about the offensive coordinator hire, and your post was a response to someone who was concerned about hiring a OC from withn a program that has been struggling badly on offense for the past three years.

    Your point seems to be that it takes 5 years to get the right talent in a system for it to be successful, and then you gave Gary Pinkel as example. Pinkel's offense made significant strides and became in successful year 2, and thus MU does not appear to be a very good example to support your claim that it takes 5 years for a system to become successful.
    Quote Originally Posted by jbhtexas View Post
    I doubt that anybody can understand your "illustration", since folks usually give examples that support their assertions rather than counter them.
    The pinkel example makes perfect sense if you don't use the false pretense that Pinkle did well in year 2. Pinkel DID take 5 years to get it going (Actually more like 6 or 7)...his record at mizzu:

    2001: 4-7
    2002: 5-7
    2003: 8-5
    2004: 5-6
    2005: 7-5
    2006: 8-5
    2007: 12-2.



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    Re: MESS named OC

    Quote Originally Posted by FootballinTexas View Post
    A couple of things I noticed from watching the replay of the game on CZ;
    1. JB was off in the passing game but the decisions were not bad. He missed on 2 throws (Lenz on the delay cross and Mibey on the hitch). Darks runs a crappy route on another and he acknowledges it right after the play but doing the "my bad" pat on his chest while going back to the LOS, and Money had single press coverage quit running on the go route, he took a hit anyway.
    2. The 2-back set was killing them, don't know why we got away from it. (Midline read was a great play)
    3. Zone read would have killed too if our WR's learn how to block. They were sending the DE to the RB and blitzing the CB to the QB. A simple adjustment is get the CB blocked and the QB has a chance to make big plays. Our WR's never block a blitzing CB all night.
    4. On JB's fumble, it wasn't a zone blitz, the center and both guards blocked 2 guys so HH's guy came in untouched, JW and CB whiffed on their blocks. He don't have a chance to get his feet set. Gary was just coming open on a crossing route.
    5. Coverage was too loose. Too much cushion.
    6. No adjustment to the bubble screen to counteract the middle blitz
    7. No adjustment to sprint out to counter the middle blitz.
    8. No max-protect to counter the middle blitz.
    9.No personnel change (Replace the TE with a more speedy guy to get into routes quicker) to counter the blitz.
    10. STAY IN THE 2- BACK and pound the football!!! We were winning the game!!
    11. Just plain ******* vanilla!!

    Thanks. Now we are getting into analysis that has real depth, not just shallow general opinions.

    1. I count 3, maybe 4 bad passes by Barnett on three drives: one in the first drive where Gary had fallen down, next play was high over Darks, next drive bounced one in front of Reynolds, and threw far over Reynolds on third drive.
    2. I agree. Not only was this working in terms of gaining yardage, but it added some blitz protection.
    3. WR blocking has been an issue all season. However, it is hard to think that this isn't in the practices and gameplans. It is okay to have 1-2 receivers who just run and catch, but guys who play lots of downs need to be able to block. I think we traded receiving ability for blocking ability this season, perhaps because they were seniors with great receiving ability.
    4. The more I think about it, the more I wonder if bringing in Jantz wasn't part of the gameplan. Barnett had two drives that started well, but fizzled, so we settled for FGs. Then, he gets sacked in the pocket. I wonder if Herman (or Rhoads) planned to give him a few series and put in Jantz if Barnett struggled largely because it makes sense to think Jantz would have been more agile and crafty in scrambling away from blitzes.
    5. We may have been a little loose in the first half, but not the second. The disappearance of Sanu in the second half, one catch by Coleman, and one catch by Jefferson suggests we were doing something right. And there were lots of throws that looked to be intentionally thrown high and uncatchable because of coverage, especially when the receivers were in the endzone in the first half.
    6. I would have liked to have seen a few more of these. They could have been big gainers with the quickness of West and Horne, especially if the area was vacated by blitzers.
    7. Same as #6.
    8. See #2.
    9. We did have one very good play by a TE. I would have liked to see Woody take more of this role as a receiver. We talk about his size and strength, but he has some quickness and moves also. I predict we will see much more of him next year.
    10. See #2.
    11. We got too much yardage for me to call it "vanilla." However, we really limited our options on 3rd down by not doing better on 1st down. I think both teams were 2 for 13 on 3rd down. However, ours were 3rd and long where we didn't execute well. Theirs were 3rd and short where our defense made stops.



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    Re: MESS named OC

    Deep down, I was actually hoping for CM to be named the OC. Its a good day here on my end.

    Quote Originally Posted by isufbcurt View Post
    Also, he has been the head special teams coach who implemented alot of the "innovative fakes and surprise kicks" so I am anxious to see what tweeks he makes to the offense.
    If this is true, then its very awesome. Herman was pretty lack luster when it came to running trick plays that actually worked. I actually expected as lot of innovation from Herman in the trickiness department, and the trick plays we got were not that tricky.

    With that said, this offense might become real fun and exciting to watch with a much greater element of surprise.


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    Re: MESS named OC

    Quote Originally Posted by SpokaneCY View Post
    The solution WAS in place... The dropped passes, the numerous over and under throws to WIDE open WRs, inopportune penalties... None of those were part of the gameplan but had we executed on even half (pulling that out of my butt) its a different game and we're in it or win it at the end. Gameplan for Rutgers was fine - our execution was pathetic. Thats players and thats coaching...
    That effing holding call on the kickoff killed us. From my recollection it looked like a really ticky tack call that could be made on every kickoff as well which sucks.

    Give us that TD back and with the way Jantz started rolling in the 4th quarter (right on schedule) and we would have had a ballgame on our hands. The big pass given up at the end sealed it unfortunately.



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    Re: MESS named OC

    Quote Originally Posted by cyhiphopp View Post
    That effing holding call on the kickoff killed us. From my recollection it looked like a really ticky tack call that could be made on every kickoff as well which sucks.

    Give us that TD back and with the way Jantz started rolling in the 4th quarter (right on schedule) and we would have had a ballgame on our hands. The big pass given up at the end sealed it unfortunately.


    I couldn't see the hold at the game, but it was pretty blatant on the replay.



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    Re: MESS named OC

    Quote Originally Posted by SpokaneCY View Post
    The solution WAS in place... The dropped passes, the numerous over and under throws to WIDE open WRs, inopportune penalties... None of those were part of the gameplan but had we executed on even half (pulling that out of my butt) its a different game and we're in it or win it at the end. Gameplan for Rutgers was fine - our execution was pathetic. Thats players and thats coaching...

    I wouldn't say pathetic. And the Rutgers offensive gameplan had its issues, mostly because of our solid defense. Apart from a 4-yard drive and an 86 yard TD, our defense held them to 13 points. Thus, I once again say that their big plays made the difference (one on defense in the 2nd Q and one on offense in the 4th Q). Do nothing but take those two plays away and the score is 13-13.



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    Re: MESS named OC

    Someone asked earlier what we should have done differently.

    Rutgers was blitzing inside gaps all days after the first two series. TH decided "awesome! Let's bring the slot right into the path of the stunt and hand off to him!" Predictably, this got buried in the backfield every time.

    The Rutgers defensive ends were slanting in. You could see the couple of times we went off tackle (no zone read, just straight handoff) and the RB was caught from behind by the unblocked backside defensive end. This defense SCREAMS for a bootleg. It never happened.

    I actually watched Steele Jantz attempt to run an option play. What in the **** was that? The usual result was running out of bounds to the short side for a two yard loss.

    What should have happened: abandon the zone read because Rutgers was attacking so much. Call flanker slants, outside zone runs, stretch toss runs, play-action passes to a crossing route, roll-out flood passes, and the occasional counter/shovel off of the roll-out.


    Last edited by klamath632; 01-04-2012 at 03:32 PM.

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    Re: MESS named OC

    I'm happy with the hire, time will tell, but CPR must see something good in Messingham



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    Re: MESS named OC

    Quote Originally Posted by Cycsk View Post
    I couldn't see the hold at the game, but it was pretty blatant on the replay.
    There is no denying it was a hold, but the beef I have with that call is how the officials selectively call it. The offensive line of Rutgers was doing the same thing nearly every play but was never called.



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    Re: MESS named OC

    Quote Originally Posted by klamath632 View Post

    I actually watched Steele Jantz attempt to run an option play. What in the **** was that? The usual result was running out of bounds to the short side for a two yard loss.
    Man. I forgot about that one. And I love Woody, but he wouldn't be my first choice of back for an option either.



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    Re: MESS named OC

    Quote Originally Posted by klamath632 View Post
    Someone asked earlier what we should have done differently.

    Rutgers was blitzing inside gaps all days after the first two series. TH decided "awesome! Let's bring the slot right into the path of the stunt and hand off to him!" Predictably, this got buried in the backfield every time.

    The Rutgers defensive ends were slanting in. You could see the couple of times we went off tackle (no zone read, just straight handoff) and the RB was caught from behind by the defensive end. This defense SCREAMS for a bootleg. It never happened.

    I actually watched Steele Jantz attempt to run an option play. What in the **** was that? The usual result was running out of bounds to the short side for a two yard loss.

    What should have happened: abandon the zone read because Rutgers was attacking so much. Call flanker slants, outside zone runs, stretch toss runs, play-action passes to a crossing route, roll-out flood passes, and the occasional counter/shovel off of the roll-out.


    I would add much more use of Woody. Right before he scored, I said that I thought it would be a great time to let him run up the middle because at worst he is going to run over a blitzer and at best he is going to be too free to stop easily. However, I didn't expect to see the speed and move that got him to the endzone.

    While I think we should have tried more of the plays you list, I'm not sure how much success we would have had with the plays you list. We just didn't seem to be able to get outside the double blitzing from one side and the blitzes just seemed to come too fast for us to have receivers in place or to roll out. The speed of their d-line and LBs was impressive.



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    Re: MESS named OC

    Quote Originally Posted by Ciclone View Post
    Man. I forgot about that one. And I love Woody, but he wouldn't be my first choice of back for an option either.
    Quite right. His strength is running into the line, not parallel to it.


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