US Military - Blackwater incident was unprovoked.
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    US Military - Blackwater incident was unprovoked.

    They seem to be backing the Iraqi position.

    washingtonpost.com



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    Re: US Military - Blackwater incident was unprovoked.

    Quote Originally Posted by cigaretteman View Post
    Clearly those military reports were forged by the liberal media who want us to lose the war

    And the anonymous military soldier must be one of those 'phony soldiers' the liberal media drags up to further their own partisan cause.



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    Re: US Military - Blackwater incident was unprovoked.

    Ah yes, the "Senior Military Official". Someday, I'd like to meet that guy.... His "quote" indicates he doesn't know WTF he is talking about. "Maneuvers around town aggressively?" I'm pretty sure that clown doesn't know how soldiers drive in Baghdad, much less a Personal Security Detail assigned to a diplomat. His overgeneralized comments vis-a-vis Blackwater sound a lot like ignorant-speak to me.

    And if there was no incoming small arms fire, how did the Iraqi Ministry of Interior Official that they were escorting get wounded?

    I'm wondering what the State Department Security guy who was supervising that convoy has to say - There is at least one, you know.... And the fact that noone has come forward from State to give an "official" version of what happened speaks volumes to me.

    And, yeah, I'm pretty sure the "Senior Military Official" is a "phoney" of some kind....



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    Re: US Military - Blackwater incident was unprovoked.

    Quote Originally Posted by herbiedoobie View Post
    Ah yes, the "Senior Military Official". Someday, I'd like to meet that guy.... His "quote" indicates he doesn't know WTF he is talking about. "Maneuvers around town aggressively?" I'm pretty sure that clown doesn't know how soldiers drive in Baghdad, much less a Personal Security Detail assigned to a diplomat. His overgeneralized comments vis-a-vis Blackwater sound a lot like ignorant-speak to me.

    And if there was no incoming small arms fire, how did the Iraqi Ministry of Interior Official that they were escorting get wounded?

    I'm wondering what the State Department Security guy who was supervising that convoy has to say - There is at least one, you know.... And the fact that noone has come forward from State to give an "official" version of what happened speaks volumes to me.

    And, yeah, I'm pretty sure the "Senior Military Official" is a "phoney" of some kind....
    My brother in law is a former Marine recon, and he gets all sorts of great videos from his friends who are also veterans. One of them was really interesting because it showed how Army vehicles drive around. Basically the idea (and very, very good and necessary idea) is to never stop between point A and point B. They were cruising along, bumping cars to get them to pull out of the way, literally pushing them out of the way if need be. It was about a three minute video, and I'll bet they bumped 30 cars along the way. Pretty sure that "maneuvering aggressively" is necessary to keep from being stopped and ambushed.



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    Re: US Military - Blackwater incident was unprovoked.

    Quote Originally Posted by herbiedoobie View Post
    Ah yes, the "Senior Military Official". Someday, I'd like to meet that guy.... His "quote" indicates he doesn't know WTF he is talking about. "Maneuvers around town aggressively?" I'm pretty sure that clown doesn't know how soldiers drive in Baghdad, much less a Personal Security Detail assigned to a diplomat. His overgeneralized comments vis-a-vis Blackwater sound a lot like ignorant-speak to me.

    And if there was no incoming small arms fire, how did the Iraqi Ministry of Interior Official that they were escorting get wounded?

    I'm wondering what the State Department Security guy who was supervising that convoy has to say - There is at least one, you know.... And the fact that noone has come forward from State to give an "official" version of what happened speaks volumes to me.

    And, yeah, I'm pretty sure the "Senior Military Official" is a "phoney" of some kind....
    You ask enough people enough leading questions, and eventually you'll get the answer you need for your story. This person then becomes your "Senior Military Official". Standard practice.



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    Re: US Military - Blackwater incident was unprovoked.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclonepride View Post
    My brother in law is a former Marine recon, and he gets all sorts of great videos from his friends who are also veterans. One of them was really interesting because it showed how Army vehicles drive around. Basically the idea (and very, very good and necessary idea) is to never stop between point A and point B. They were cruising along, bumping cars to get them to pull out of the way, literally pushing them out of the way if need be. It was about a three minute video, and I'll bet they bumped 30 cars along the way. Pretty sure that "maneuvering aggressively" is necessary to keep from being stopped and ambushed.
    But not everyone should be allowed to act like that! If civilian contractors are expected to act like soldiers, I think they should be hired by the DOD and be subject to the UCMJ, just like the marines that you are talking about.



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    Re: US Military - Blackwater incident was unprovoked.

    Quote Originally Posted by iceclone View Post
    But not everyone should be allowed to act like that! If civilian contractors are expected to act like soldiers, I think they should be hired by the DOD and be subject to the UCMJ, just like the marines that you are talking about.
    Point taken, but if they were hired to provide protection for VIP's, then do they just drive around in traffic like normal? I am sure that their vehicles pretty much identify them as a target for the bad guys.



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    Re: US Military - Blackwater incident was unprovoked.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclonepride View Post
    Point taken, but if they were hired to provide protection for VIP's, then do they just drive around in traffic like normal? I am sure that their vehicles pretty much identify them as a target for the bad guys.
    I explained my thoughts a bit more in the "Lions and Tigers and Military Contractors, Oh My!" thread below, and since herbiedoobie also had some great observations in response, I'll just reference that!



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    Re: US Military - Blackwater incident was unprovoked.

    Quote Originally Posted by clone52 View Post
    Clearly those military reports were forged by the liberal media who want us to lose the war

    And the anonymous military soldier must be one of those 'phony soldiers' the liberal media drags up to further their own partisan cause.
    Is this a serious comment?



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    Re: US Military - Blackwater incident was unprovoked.

    Quote Originally Posted by Clone9 View Post
    Is this a serious comment?
    I think he was kidding.


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    Re: US Military - Blackwater incident was unprovoked.

    I am admittedly ignorant on this particular issue, as I have not been following it very closely (too many stories to follow). But can someone tell me exactly why we have companies like Blackwater working for us in the first place? I like to think all of those with guns in Iraq are members of our Military. I guess I'm just not too hot on the idea of a privatized military. I know hindsight is 20/20, but doesn't it just seem like a situation like this was bound to happen? I mean, our own troops have been involved with some sketchy situations over there (they ALWAYS receive the benefit of the doubt from me....I know my trigger finger would be very itchy in a situation like that), but it doesn't seem right for these private contractors to be in the same situation. I know most of the guys are former military/special forces, and therefore well trained and qualified, but it just doesn't seem right to me. Why can't our own guys do the job? I'm sure they serve some purpose, I just don't understand what/why? Enlighten me.



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    Re: US Military - Blackwater incident was unprovoked.

    If I was Blackwater certified, I would have an itchy trigger finger. Those guys are Yahoooooos.


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    Re: US Military - Blackwater incident was unprovoked.

    Quote Originally Posted by Clone9 View Post
    I am admittedly ignorant on this particular issue, as I have not been following it very closely (too many stories to follow). But can someone tell me exactly why we have companies like Blackwater working for us in the first place? I like to think all of those with guns in Iraq are members of our Military. I guess I'm just not too hot on the idea of a privatized military. I know hindsight is 20/20, but doesn't it just seem like a situation like this was bound to happen? I mean, our own troops have been involved with some sketchy situations over there (they ALWAYS receive the benefit of the doubt from me....I know my trigger finger would be very itchy in a situation like that), but it doesn't seem right for these private contractors to be in the same situation. I know most of the guys are former military/special forces, and therefore well trained and qualified, but it just doesn't seem right to me. Why can't our own guys do the job? I'm sure they serve some purpose, I just don't understand what/why? Enlighten me.
    Because the military doesn't pay pure "trigger-pullers" anywhere near enough in order to keep the talented ones doing the job. Even if you WANTED to be a shooter, sooner or later the Army would kick you out, or promote you to a non-shooting job.

    And the great majority of "trigger-pullers" in the Army are not trained well enough to do personal protection. It's a darned tough job, and generally requires someone who is older and more experienced than your typical Private or Specialist.

    The problem isn't contractors, it's how they're administered. The concept of putting all PMCs (Private Military Contractors) under DoD in a Theater of War and making them subject to UCMJ, just like the DoD PMCs are, is probably the correct answer. But the Other Government Agencies (OGAs) don't want to depend on the military for their security.



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    Re: US Military - Blackwater incident was unprovoked.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wesley View Post
    If I was Blackwater certified, I would have an itchy trigger finger. Those guys are Yahoooooos.
    I normally wouldn't grace this with a reply, but something needs to be said, here. Blackwater is not an "out of control bunch of yahoos." They are, frankly, a lot tighter group than the US Army, and probably better disciplined than the Marines. They are the most professional of the bunch, which is the reason, imo, they are being singled out.

    At the earlier stages of the war, there were some off-shore groups operating that, frankly, lived down to the stereotype that is being put forth, but those guys are mostly gone now, except for, ironically, the Iraqi-owned groups. God have mercy on your soul if one of those convoys come through your neighborhood.

    Some Iraqi sheikhs have realized that they are losing out on some serious profits when it comes to the security business, and I believe that the latest "bash PMCs" craze is the direct result of them not getting a serious piece of the pie, or at least getting their palms greased.



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    Re: US Military - Blackwater incident was unprovoked.

    This has been an interesting discussion of the only way to safely get from point A to point B in Baghdad. Let's just keep repeating to ourselves: The surge is working, the surge is working , the surge is working...



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