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Thread: Few Herman bits

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    Few Herman bits

    I know his only goal at ISU was to use it to get a better job. He has not been shy about telling people that. Maybe not in the media, but hardly in settings that would be considered private. I don't blame him for that. I think all coordinators should be trying to move onward and upward. On the few occasions that I spoke with him and heard him talk to other college coaches, he was very positive about Ames and loved the family atmosphere of ISU and the schools in the area.
    Now to the good stuff, according to another coach in the B1G, he and Meyer have the same agent and that is how the deal got brokered to get him to OSU. He will also be the OCoordinator in name only, Meyer will be calling the O. Not totally uncommon, butalso not super common.
    My issue with Herman's playcalling over the last 3 years was that I feel he failed to recognize that ISU didn't have the talent to do some of the things he wanted. He was using the Saban mindset of "We're going to do what we do best and see if you can stop us." That works when you have superior talent.
    Didn't seem like we had gameplans put together for specific opponents and he was going to run what he wanted regardless of what they were doing.


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    Re: Few Herman bits

    That makes sense. Wish it didn't but it does. You'd think someone in Mensa would not fall for that strategy but perhaps he did.


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    Re: Few Herman bits

    I am not sad to see him go. Didn't think much of him as far as the results on the field. Now that Paul has established a "decent" team and has recommitted to 10 more years we should have the foundation to get a better replacement.

    I'll be honest, surprised based on his credentials that Herman got plucked... but same with Chizik, so who knows...?



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    Re: Few Herman bits

    My view of Tom Herman is a little more detached as I am not a die hard ISU fan. Tom is a very bright and innovative coach. My beef with him is the same as with a lot of football and basketball coaches at both the high school and college levels. The coaches run their scheme come hell or high water and let the results be what they may be. They fail to modify their schemes to maximize the abilities of the players they have available. They force players to try and excel at things they do not necessarily do well. Why they do not game plan and play call to the strengths of their players is beyond me.

    To use Tom Herman and the ISU offense as an example the last three years, the Clones have not been blessed with accurate throwing arms nor an abundance of dependable hands receivers. The offensive line has been large but not especially gifted at pass blocking. Why not emphasize the running game and simplify the passing game to include more quick slants, button hooks, and short crossing routes? For example, would not Austin Arnaud have looked great running the same basic plays and sets that Bill Snyder designed for Collin Klein this year?


    Last edited by iowa_wildcat; 01-01-2012 at 09:16 AM. Reason: Addition

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    Re: Few Herman bits

    Quote Originally Posted by iowa_wildcat View Post
    My view of Tom Herman is a little more detached as I am not a die hard ISU fan. Tom is a very bright and innovative coach. My beef with him is the same as with a lot of football and basketball coaches at both the high school and college levels. The coaches run their scheme come hell or high water and let the results be what they may be. They fail to modify their schemes to maximize the abilities of the players they have available. They force players to try and excel at things they do not necessarily do well. Why they do not game plan and play call to the strengths of their players is beyond me.

    To use Tom Herman and the ISU offense as an example the last three years, the Clones have not been blessed with accurate throwing arms nor an abundance of dependable hands receivers. The offensive line has been large but not especially gifted at pass blocking. Why not emphasize the running game and simplify the passing game to include more quick slants, button hooks, and short crossing routes? For example, would not Austin Arnaud have looked great running the same basic plays and sets that Bill Snyder designed for Collin Klein this year?
    Your example is spot on - however Bill S is a coach and TH is not. TH has a system but does not coach.



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    Re: Few Herman bits

    These are the facts.... the offense under Tom Herman has been nothing short of a complete disaster ever since he came to ISU. The statistics don't lie.

    So as a huge fan of ISU football, you CANNOT be disappointed to see him go. No way.



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    Re: Few Herman bits

    Outside of OC duties, I've been disappointed by the QB coaching. ISU qbs seemed poorly coached and didn't show improvement. If I were an tOSU fan, I'd be most concerned about this if Meyer is really calling the plays.



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    Re: Few Herman bits

    I trust that CPR will find the right OC this time. Trial and error.



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    Re: Few Herman bits

    Quote Originally Posted by wartknight View Post
    I know his only goal at ISU was to use it to get a better job. He has not been shy about telling people that. Maybe not in the media, but hardly in settings that would be considered private. I don't blame him for that. I think all coordinators should be trying to move onward and upward. On the few occasions that I spoke with him and heard him talk to other college coaches, he was very positive about Ames and loved the family atmosphere of ISU and the schools in the area.
    Now to the good stuff, according to another coach in the B1G, he and Meyer have the same agent and that is how the deal got brokered to get him to OSU. He will also be the OCoordinator in name only, Meyer will be calling the O. Not totally uncommon, butalso not super common.
    My issue with Herman's playcalling over the last 3 years was that I feel he failed to recognize that ISU didn't have the talent to do some of the things he wanted. He was using the Saban mindset of "We're going to do what we do best and see if you can stop us." That works when you have superior talent.
    Didn't seem like we had gameplans put together for specific opponents and he was going to run what he wanted regardless of what they were doing.
    This is pretty much how I felt all along. He never seemed willing to change or adapt his plan based on what the other team was doing. When it was working, he looked like a genius, see TTU and the second half of the Iowa game, but in games like the Pinstripe bowl, he just didn't seem willing to admit that his plan wasn't working and we had to adjust to pick up the extra blitzers.

    One aspect of a great Coordinator, imo, is not only to be able to develop great plans, but be able to adapt on the fly to what is being offered to you and play off of that. I don't mean to slam Rutgers here, they beat us up fair and square, but I didn't see any real separation in talent there, we definitely should have been able to keep the game closer, but Herman was stuck on running his plan. Even the implementation of the reverses, etc. We didn't need that stuff. At least not that early in the game.

    In the end, I don't see anything he did at ISU as something that any other coach with even a bit of offensive knowledge couldn't come in and do just as well. In fact, I watch Offensive line a lot during games, since that's what I mainly played and to be honest, we rarely do anything out of the ordinary there. It's usually man up and block. And with the spread, that leaves us completely susceptible to the Blitz. There are a lot of things we could have done to counter Rutger's Blitz, but I didn't really see Herman trying anything.

    Sorry for the long post, especially when all it leads to is me saying that I'm just not that concerned about the guy leaving. I don't mean to be an *** when I say I don't think he'll be missed, but quite simply, Herman won't be missed. Our offensive production is so far behind the rest of the Big XII, that it honestly can't get much worse.



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    Re: Few Herman bits

    Quote Originally Posted by wartknight View Post
    I know his only goal at ISU was to use it to get a better job. He has not been shy about telling people that. Maybe not in the media, but hardly in settings that would be considered private. I don't blame him for that. I think all coordinators should be trying to move onward and upward. On the few occasions that I spoke with him and heard him talk to other college coaches, he was very positive about Ames and loved the family atmosphere of ISU and the schools in the area.
    Now to the good stuff, according to another coach in the B1G, he and Meyer have the same agent and that is how the deal got brokered to get him to OSU. He will also be the OCoordinator in name only, Meyer will be calling the O. Not totally uncommon, butalso not super common.
    My issue with Herman's playcalling over the last 3 years was that I feel he failed to recognize that ISU didn't have the talent to do some of the things he wanted. He was using the Saban mindset of "We're going to do what we do best and see if you can stop us." That works when you have superior talent.
    Didn't seem like we had gameplans put together for specific opponents and he was going to run what he wanted regardless of what they were doing.
    I like your points, but there are definitely both sides of the argument here. I prefer an offense that runs a small amount of plays which has the goal of out-executing the defense, no matter who they are. If you're a player on offense and you work on the same things all year, you will have the advantage over the defense which needs to prepare for new things weekly.

    Having said that, we still need to play to our players strengths within the framework of executing a small amount of plays. Thats where I feel TH fell short in that he seemed to want to run our offense a certain way for players talents' that had not arrived on campus yet. All kidding aside, though its tough to run an offense when you don't have an accurate passer....I don't have the answer on that, maybe he needs to improve as a qb's coach as well. I don't feel our qb's went through their progressions well enough.



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    Re: Few Herman bits

    Quote Originally Posted by iowa_wildcat View Post
    My view of Tom Herman is a little more detached as I am not a die hard ISU fan. Tom is a very bright and innovative coach. My beef with him is the same as with a lot of football and basketball coaches at both the high school and college levels. The coaches run their scheme come hell or high water and let the results be what they may be. They fail to modify their schemes to maximize the abilities of the players they have available. They force players to try and excel at things they do not necessarily do well. Why they do not game plan and play call to the strengths of their players is beyond me.

    To use Tom Herman and the ISU offense as an example the last three years, the Clones have not been blessed with accurate throwing arms nor an abundance of dependable hands receivers. The offensive line has been large but not especially gifted at pass blocking. Why not emphasize the running game and simplify the passing game to include more quick slants, button hooks, and short crossing routes? For example, would not Austin Arnaud have looked great running the same basic plays and sets that Bill Snyder designed for Collin Klein this year?
    This. Couldn't have said it better. I am glad to see him go, 100% glad. If I have to see us run the ball at will up the field for 50 yards and then throw 3 passes and have to kick one more time I am going to kill someone.



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    Re: Few Herman bits

    Quote Originally Posted by snowcraig2.0 View Post
    This. Couldn't have said it better. I am glad to see him go, 100% glad. If I have to see us run the ball at will up the field for 50 yards and then throw 3 passes and have to kick one more time I am going to kill someone.
    Well said. There is NOBODY that can justify Herman's decision to go with 3 straight passes on the end of that first drive.

    Some have said, "well Rutgers changed up their defense and forced us to throw". Show me where that happened in that first drive... it didn't. Rutgers didn't stop our running game even once on that first drive, but yet Mensa decided to get cute and call 3 straight pass plays.... yeah, that will fool them!

    Tom Herman has spoke openly about wanting to move on from Ames almost since the day he got here. Said openly to John Walters in an interview after one of our wins this year that it was the first time he felt appreciated here.

    The guy is arrogant, and yes, I've always felt that way. He produces no results while here, but everyone talks about what a genius he is. I never got it. Our offense was not only bad, it was painful to watch 90% of the time.

    OSU can have him. He won't be exposed at OSU for the fraud he is, because Urban Meyer will be making all the play calls. However, if he is also the QB coach, I'm certain their QB's will get worse under his coaching.... ours always did.



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    Re: Few Herman bits

    Quote Originally Posted by clonedude View Post
    Well said. There is NOBODY that can justify Herman's decision to go with 3 straight passes on the end of that first drive.

    Some have said, "well Rutgers changed up their defense and forced us to throw". Show me where that happened in that first drive... it didn't. Rutgers didn't stop our running game even once on that first drive, but yet Mensa decided to get cute and call 3 straight pass plays.... yeah, that will fool them!

    Tom Herman has spoke openly about wanting to move on from Ames almost since the day he got here. Said openly to John Walters in an interview after one of our wins this year that it was the first time he felt appreciated here.

    The guy is arrogant, and yes, I've always felt that way. He produces no results while here, but everyone talks about what a genius he is. I never got it. Our offense was not only bad, it was painful to watch 90% of the time.

    OSU can have him. He won't be exposed at OSU for the fraud he is, because Urban Meyer will be making all the play calls. However, if he is also the QB coach, I'm certain their QB's will get worse under his coaching.... ours always did.
    Not going to justify the bolded part, but every OC I have been around in college Lonely (twice), Hoener, Brickey, and even Herman s cript (had to write it this way do to filtering) the first X amount of plays (usually between 10 -15) and they stick with that s cript in order to get an idea of what the defense is going to do.

    Just providing insight so do don't me wrong I was mad too that we were running it down their throats and then 3 straight passes. Also, bubble screens (not tunnel screens) were there all day because of the blitzing!!!!



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    Re: Few Herman bits

    Herman didn't adapt. That's all that I can say with 100% certainty.



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    Re: Few Herman bits

    Quote Originally Posted by clonedude View Post
    Well said. There is NOBODY that can justify Herman's decision to go with 3 straight passes on the end of that first drive.

    Some have said, "well Rutgers changed up their defense and forced us to throw". Show me where that happened in that first drive... it didn't. Rutgers didn't stop our running game even once on that first drive, but yet Mensa decided to get cute and call 3 straight pass plays.... yeah, that will fool them!

    Tom Herman has spoke openly about wanting to move on from Ames almost since the day he got here. Said openly to John Walters in an interview after one of our wins this year that it was the first time he felt appreciated here.

    The guy is arrogant, and yes, I've always felt that way. He produces no results while here, but everyone talks about what a genius he is. I never got it. Our offense was not only bad, it was painful to watch 90% of the time.

    OSU can have him. He won't be exposed at OSU for the fraud he is, because Urban Meyer will be making all the play calls. However, if he is also the QB coach, I'm certain their QB's will get worse under his coaching.... ours always did.
    Herman's actual quote to Walters was "I think it's the first time I've received praise here." They both laughed because it was a joke but it was pretty much truth. Never said anything about being appreciated. Also, I've never heard a quote where he said he was openly wanting to move on from Ames.

    Having said all that, the only reason I'm disappointed to see him go is because of the lack of continuity. Otherwise, I won't miss him.



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