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  1. #1
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    Coaching "issues"

    First off, I'm not calling for anybody's head. I'm not saying this is a bad hire.

    But two things stand out from Saturday night's game, IMO.

    1) How much longer will ISU fans have to endure "playing for the FG"? I realize this might be standard fare for other programs. Programs that are competent in special teams. ISU, historically, is not one of them. The second I saw Bret take that first dive to the left in the final minute, you just knew what was going to happen. The drive for the endzone was over.

    Somebody on here has had that quote from a coach that says "three things happen when you throw the ball, two of them are bad". Well, 5 things happen when you kick, 4 of them are bad. And ISU pulls out all five on a far too regular basis. Why do we continue to do it?

    Not to mention another aspect of special teams. We kicked with about 10 secs to go. Last week we did the same thing with less time, and nearly gave up the ensuing kickoff return. Literally 15 minutes earlier, we gave up a kickoff return on which our cover team thought we were playing flag football. Would it not occur to us that maybe a 2pt lead wouldn't be enough? Regardless, isn't 7 usually better than 3 anyway?

    And 10 minutes earlier we gave up the go-ahead score on a botched snap. And we're going back to special teams???? Isn't the writing on the wall in regards to this aspect of our team? At least on this night?

    Despite RJ's drop, we were shredding the Toledo D with our passing game. Killing it. They had no answer. Why run? Why go away from what has been working? As an aside, the double and triple moves Blythe had earlier in the game were awesome. And a nice job by the line to give time for that to happen.

    As for the kick, I'm only glad that it was blocked and Shaggy doesn't have to endure another miss.

    2) Did it appear to anybody else that our punter (name escapes me) was trying to cover or pick up the punt? We were at that opposite end of the field, so it was hard to tell. But it looked like he was trying to pick up and at the last second just cover.

    Shouldn't the AUTOMATIC play be to bat it out of the endzone, take the safety, and try to regain field position on the ensuing punt? Shouldn't that instruction have been the last thing relayed to the punter by the coaches? Didn't look like that was what he was doing from our vantage.


    Oh, well. Drive over sucked. Drive back was worse (wonder why). Time there was decent enough. Toledo fans were pretty good, aside from the ***** in Sec 23. FlagGuy and Superfan probably know who I'm talking about and represented well in their own right. Kind of sad for the Rockets, when the college kids and alums in their 20's are more respectful and gracious than the fans in their 40's.

    To conclude, A fella in our group had a pretty good summary for the game.

    F%#& !!!!!!


    Last edited by DaddyMac; 09-24-2007 at 09:53 AM.

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    Re: Coaching "issues"

    Game in control...then the players made 2 huge mistakes...

    - Allowed a kick return for a TD
    - Fouled up a punt

    Instead of being up 11, we're down 1 without the defense even getting a chance (except to thwart two 2-point conversion attempts).



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    Re: Coaching "issues"

    I don't fault the coaches for this loss at all actually - they repeatedly put the players in a position to win in the last 5 minutes. The coaches and players need to flush this game and get ready for Big 12 play.




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    Re: Coaching "issues"

    Football smarts my friend, football smarts. I think the coaching staff still doesnt believe in the capability of the players. Look at what they screw up on basics and fundamentals alone. Its hard to get agressive with a team that cant even handle conservative plays. I really dont fully buy into the coaching staff being the problem. Yes they are to blame for some (of which they are fully aware of), but when it comes down to it, its pure execution that is the problem.



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    Re: Coaching "issues"

    Quote Originally Posted by DaddyMac View Post
    First off, I'm not calling for anybody's head. I'm not saying this is a bad hire.

    But two things stand out from Saturday night's game, IMO.

    1) How much longer will ISU fans have to endure "playing for the FG"? I realize this might be standard fare for other programs. Programs that are competent in special teams. ISU, historically, is not one of them. The second I saw Bret take that first dive to the left in the final minute, you just knew what was going to happen. The drive for the endzone was over.

    Somebody on here has had that quote from a coach that says "three things happen when you throw the ball, two of them are bad". Well, 5 things happen when you kick, 4 of them are bad. And ISU pulls out all five on a far too regular basis. Why do we continue to do it?

    Not to mention another aspect of special teams. We kicked with about 10 secs to go. Last week we did the same thing with less time, and nearly gave up the ensuing kickoff return. Literally 15 minutes earlier, we gave up a kickoff return on which our cover team thought we were playing flag football. Would it not occur to us that maybe a 2pt lead wouldn't be enough? Regardless, isn't 7 usually better than 3 anyway?

    And 10 minutes earlier we gave up the go-ahead score on a botched snap. And we're going back to special teams???? Isn't the writing on the wall in regards to this aspect of our team? At least on this night?

    Despite RJ's drop, we were shredding the Toledo D with our passing game. Killing it. They had no answer. Why run? Why go away from what has been working? As an aside, the double and triple moves Blythe had earlier in the game were awesome. And a nice job by the line to give time for that to happen.

    As for the kick, I'm only glad that it was blocked and Shaggy doesn't have to endure another miss.

    2) Did it appear to anybody else that our punter (name escapes me) was trying to cover or pick up the punt? We were at that opposite end of the field, so it was hard to tell. But it looked like he was trying to pick up and at the last second just cover.

    Shouldn't the AUTOMATIC play be to bat it out of the endzone, take the safety, and try to regain field position on the ensuing punt? Shouldn't that instruction have been the last thing relayed to the punter by the coaches? Didn't look like that was what he was doing from our vantage.


    Oh, well. Drive over sucked. Drive back was worse (wonder why). Time there was decent enough. Toledo fans were pretty good, aside from the ***** in Sec 23. FlagGuy and Superfan probably know who I'm talking about and represented well in their own right. Kind of sad for the Rockets, when the college kids and alums in their 20's are more respectful and gracious than the fans in their 40's.

    To conclude, A fella in our group had a pretty good summary for the game.

    F%#& !!!!!!
    I would argue that if we go for the TD ( or first down) on 4th and don't get it, everyone would be yelling that it was a coaching error to not try to kick the field goal and get the lead. I'd say it was the right coaching move. Just very poor player execution.


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    Re: Coaching "issues"

    Yep, and the two "issues" I mentioned came after those things happened.

    Well the second issue was one of the mistakes you mentioned. I'm curious how it happened and how the coaches prepared the player for that contingency. Would seem to me, that a player prepped would've immediately batted the ball out of the endzone. If that was what he was doing, I have no problems. But it really didn't look like it.

    On the punt, letting what happened - happen, is the worst case scenario. To recover it and give them position deep in our territory is second worst. Bat it out, take the 2pts. We're still up 3 and can regain position.

    Toledo players should've never come near that ball. Should've been immediately whacked out of the back of the endzone and hit the Toledo band in the tuba.


    Last edited by DaddyMac; 09-24-2007 at 10:06 AM.

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    Re: Coaching "issues"

    Hindsight is always 20/20. Can't blame the coaching for at least 5 missed tackles on the kickoff return, a botched snap, and a blocked field goal, players have to take responsibility on the field and do their job. On a side note, did anybody watch the Chizik show last night? Coach Chizik looked absolutely ****** off during the whole show. Can't say as I blame him.
    Quote Originally Posted by DaddyMac View Post
    First off, I'm not calling for anybody's head. I'm not saying this is a bad hire.

    But two things stand out from Saturday night's game, IMO.

    1) How much longer will ISU fans have to endure "playing for the FG"? I realize this might be standard fare for other programs. Programs that are competent in special teams. ISU, historically, is not one of them. The second I saw Bret take that first dive to the left in the final minute, you just knew what was going to happen. The drive for the endzone was over.

    Somebody on here has had that quote from a coach that says "three things happen when you throw the ball, two of them are bad". Well, 5 things happen when you kick, 4 of them are bad. And ISU pulls out all five on a far too regular basis. Why do we continue to do it?

    Not to mention another aspect of special teams. We kicked with about 10 secs to go. Last week we did the same thing with less time, and nearly gave up the ensuing kickoff return. Literally 15 minutes earlier, we gave up a kickoff return on which our cover team thought we were playing flag football. Would it not occur to us that maybe a 2pt lead wouldn't be enough? Regardless, isn't 7 usually better than 3 anyway?

    And 10 minutes earlier we gave up the go-ahead score on a botched snap. And we're going back to special teams???? Isn't the writing on the wall in regards to this aspect of our team? At least on this night?

    Despite RJ's drop, we were shredding the Toledo D with our passing game. Killing it. They had no answer. Why run? Why go away from what has been working? As an aside, the double and triple moves Blythe had earlier in the game were awesome. And a nice job by the line to give time for that to happen.

    As for the kick, I'm only glad that it was blocked and Shaggy doesn't have to endure another miss.

    2) Did it appear to anybody else that our punter (name escapes me) was trying to cover or pick up the punt? We were at that opposite end of the field, so it was hard to tell. But it looked like he was trying to pick up and at the last second just cover.

    Shouldn't the AUTOMATIC play be to bat it out of the endzone, take the safety, and try to regain field position on the ensuing punt? Shouldn't that instruction have been the last thing relayed to the punter by the coaches? Didn't look like that was what he was doing from our vantage.


    Oh, well. Drive over sucked. Drive back was worse (wonder why). Time there was decent enough. Toledo fans were pretty good, aside from the ***** in Sec 23. FlagGuy and Superfan probably know who I'm talking about and represented well in their own right. Kind of sad for the Rockets, when the college kids and alums in their 20's are more respectful and gracious than the fans in their 40's.

    To conclude, A fella in our group had a pretty good summary for the game.

    F%#& !!!!!!


    Go Cyclones!!

  8. #8
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    Re: Coaching "issues"

    I'm not suggesting going for it on 4th. Far from it. When it GOT to that point, kicking was the ONLY option.

    I'm speaking more to the two running plays prior that we pretty obviously just burning time to setup the kick. And on the heels of having very good success in the passing game.

    Like I said, 7 is always better than 3. We had a TO left and why not get Shaggy on the 5 instead of the 25. Maybe what I'm saying is we sold the farm a little early in setting ourselves up for the FG.

    Understand boys and girls - I'm not BLAMING the staff for the loss. The key play of the game was obviously that kickoff return and that was just pi$$ poor tackling by the entire team and two of the watergirls. But the coaches need to be reactive as much as the players. Given how we set ourselves up on the final drive - maybe philosophy of FG more than actual play calling, is what I'm saying. In fact, I thought the calls were great. I just think we settle the FG too soon and too often, and started calling the off tackle runs by Bret to kill the clock. As for the "too often" part, that is hardly the fault of Chiz and Co. That's a long term frustration.


    Last edited by DaddyMac; 09-24-2007 at 10:18 AM.

  9. #9
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    Re: Coaching "issues"

    My big issue is that just last week against Iowa we nearly saw a full kickoff return become a near disaster and now this week we see it again...I don't know enough about special teams to have much of an opinion but when a team repeats the same mistakes you have to look at least a little at the coaches. There are teams that go years without giving up the yardage we have on kickoffs in just the last 5 qtrs.



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    Re: Coaching "issues"

    I don't understand why some people think the coaching staff is above all critism but the reality is that the staff is brand new. They are learning along with the players. If we had a freshman QB, we would be analyzing his play, pointing out mistakes, etc but it seems that some don't think we can do that with the coaching staff. So I really liked reading what you thought the coaching staff could improve upon, I think we need more of that discussion.

    That being said...I think the coaching staff had an excellent game plan Saturday. Nearly as good of a plan as the Iowa game. The problem is the players just didn't execute on several special teams plays. It has to be so frustrating for the coaches knowing they are putting the team in positions to win and the players just aren't getting it done.



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    Re: Coaching "issues"

    Quote Originally Posted by DaddyMac View Post
    Toledo players should've never come near that ball. Should've been immediately whackout out of the back of the endzone and hit the Toledo band in the tuba.
    Thanks for the laugh! I really enjoyed this post. "Hit the Toledo band in the tuba." Good stuff from such a dreary day.


    Quote Originally Posted by 2020cy View Post
    I agree with Tube1.
    Sweeeeeeet...

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    Re: Coaching "issues"

    Quote Originally Posted by DaddyMac View Post
    On the punt, letting what happened - happen, is the worst case scenario. To recover it and give them position deep in our territory is second worst. Bat it out, take the 2pts. We're still up 3 and can regain position.
    One of the game accounts I read (for which there was a link posted here) indicated that the punter wasn't able to locate the ball once it went past him. Could explain it...I didn't hear Chizik's post game press conference (it's not up on CloneZone) so I don't know what he had to say about it.


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    Re: Coaching "issues"

    For the final quarter and a half, from what I can tell - we allowed the Toledo offense to do nothing. And, take away the big play (42 yard TD pass - stupid mental error), we allowed Toledo virtually nothing in the 2nd half.

    Offensively, seems like we played well. Meyer over 70% completion. Tosses one early pick, but 3 TDs. Bass over 100 yards again, unfortunately fumbled once too. Meyer managed to give us around 40 yards on the ground. Blythe gets 7 balls and a TD.

    The things I gather that we did poorly were...

    - Allowing another QB to complete over 70% of his passes.
    - Interception and fumble.
    - Special teams.

    I refuse to blame the coaches for this one. As Bryce said, they put the guys in position to win, they were there - the guys just dropped the ball - literally.



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    Re: Coaching "issues"

    I agree the coaching MUST get better for Iowa State. Here's my take on Toledo
    1. We should have either kicked a squib kick or high kickoff for a fair catch at the end. Do not give them a chance to run it back
    2. The punter didn't have a clue to grab the ball and take a safety at the end. It SHOULD have been discussed prior.
    3. We again got conservative when the passing game was working. We play not to lose instead of to win
    4. We needed another 10-15 yards at the end for a decent field goal shot, yet began centering the ball as the clock ran down.
    This coaching staff gets paid to be good...at this point they aren't. I know it's a learning curve, but they need to get studying. And Coach Chizik must be in the middle of this. It's his team, he was hired for his expertise. It's time to step it up.



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    Re: Coaching "issues"

    Quote Originally Posted by ISUFan22 View Post
    For the final quarter and a half, from what I can tell - we allowed the Toledo offense to do nothing. And, take away the big play (42 yard TD pass - stupid mental error), we allowed Toledo virtually nothing in the 2nd half.
    To me it sounded like we got burned on a jailhouse blitz that didn't get to the QB, or at least take away his line of sight to his safety valve on the play, which would go to lack of execution.


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