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    Gas (not flatulence)

    So I recently got a new vehicle and the manual recommends using non-ethanol fuel, which is fine by me because ethanol is a huge scam anyway (sorry farmers). In the same section it recommends using Top Tier gasoline. To be Top Tier certified a gasoline must contain at least 8% ethanol! WTH? Seems like a little contradiction there, huh?

    I'm leaning toward only using BP fuels. They exceed the detergent requirements for Top Tier but without the ethanol in their 87 octane fuel.

    Thoughts?



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    Re: Gas (not flatulence)

    Quote Originally Posted by ruxCYtable View Post
    So I recently got a new vehicle and the manual recommends using non-ethanol fuel, which is fine by me because ethanol is a huge scam anyway (sorry farmers). In the same section it recommends using Top Tier gasoline. To be Top Tier certified a gasoline must contain at least 8% ethanol! WTH? Seems like a little contradiction there, huh?

    I'm leaning toward only using BP fuels. They exceed the detergent requirements for Top Tier but without the ethanol in their 87 octane fuel.

    Thoughts?
    I'll sell you some of my 115 Octaine racing fuel for $9.75/gallon, lol.

    Off topic, I don't get some peoples hate for Ethanol. I have always used it with no issues and I have 278,000 miles on my 2002 Ford Explorer. Also the mpg dropoff from non-ethanol fuel was minimal.



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    Re: Gas (not flatulence)

    Quote Originally Posted by ruxCYtable View Post
    So I recently got a new vehicle and the manual recommends using non-ethanol fuel, which is fine by me because ethanol is a huge scam anyway (sorry farmers). In the same section it recommends using Top Tier gasoline. To be Top Tier certified a gasoline must contain at least 8% ethanol! WTH? Seems like a little contradiction there, huh?

    I'm leaning toward only using BP fuels. They exceed the detergent requirements for Top Tier but without the ethanol in their 87 octane fuel.

    Thoughts?
    87 octane...seems like the manual is pretty particular about the gas, it doesn't recommend premium? Admittedly premium is a waste of money if your car doesn't recommend it or doesn't have another issue (higher octane is less likely to 'detonate', so it's recommended for engines with higher compression ratios and I think it can help with knocking)



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    Re: Gas (not flatulence)

    Is it perhaps refering to E85 as the non-ethanol. I know alot of vehicles now are crossovers and can have E85 or Unleaded. I bet this is saying that the vehicle you purchased is not recommended for E85. I don't know, just a thought. It seems that a 10% addition of ethanol is okay for all vehicles, at least I havent heard any different. I agree with you that Ethanol is a scam, no apologies to anyone.



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    Re: Gas (not flatulence)

    Quote Originally Posted by isufbcurt View Post
    I'll sell you some of my 115 Octaine racing fuel for $9.75/gallon, lol.

    Off topic, I don't get some peoples hate for Ethanol. I have always used it with no issues and I have 278,000 miles on my 2002 Ford Explorer. Also the mpg dropoff from non-ethanol fuel was minimal.
    I think the dislike (for me anyway) comes from the fact that it's subsidized. Naive at first, I was surprised when I went out of state and the Ethanol blends were more expensive than non-blended. Found out it's because we subsidize it. Ethanol, last time I knew, was more expensive than gas.

    I still use it, figure the price break is a 'prepayment discount', but I'm not big on the subsidy. I understand the logic behind it, and don't poo-poo those with other opinions, just my POV on it.



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    Re: Gas (not flatulence)

    yep...it's going to come back and bite us all in the *** too. I think we are in a precarious position here in Iowa, I think that we benefit short term from the subsidizing at the pumps, but long term we will be hurt by the other ways in which corn and soybeans are subsidized. i.e. food, feed, plastics, etc.


    Last edited by LindenCy; 10-22-2011 at 09:03 AM.

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    Re: Gas (not flatulence)

    Quote Originally Posted by ruxCYtable View Post
    So I recently got a new vehicle and the manual recommends using non-ethanol fuel, which is fine by me because ethanol is a huge scam anyway (sorry farmers). In the same section it recommends using Top Tier gasoline. To be Top Tier certified a gasoline must contain at least 8% ethanol! WTH? Seems like a little contradiction there, huh?

    I'm leaning toward only using BP fuels. They exceed the detergent requirements for Top Tier but without the ethanol in their 87 octane fuel.

    Thoughts?
    What kind of vehicle is it? I drove Acura's for many years, and the manuals always contained cautions about using higher octane, top grade fuels. I usually used 87 octane, occasionally a tank of 89 octane, and never had a problem. Specifying higher grade fuel is a way for the automakers to get the EPA mileage ratings up.

    Maybe more important than the brand of fuel is the reputation of the gas station. I don't know what it is like of up there, but down here, there are places known for watering down their fuels, franchise stores and independents alike. Every now and then on the news, you hear about one who over did it and causes a rash of auto problems. I own all diesels now. Diesel prices are about the same at every station, but by tracking mileage, I can tell who sells high quality fuel, and who doesn't.

    Also, off topic, if you are going to hate on the ethanol industry for being a scam, you best be hating on the entire petroleum industry as well. It's has become much more of a scam than the ethanol industry ever will be.


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    Re: Gas (not flatulence)

    Quote Originally Posted by ruxCYtable View Post
    So I recently got a new vehicle and the manual recommends using non-ethanol fuel, which is fine by me because ethanol is a huge scam anyway (sorry farmers). In the same section it recommends using Top Tier gasoline. To be Top Tier certified a gasoline must contain at least 8% ethanol! WTH? Seems like a little contradiction there, huh?

    I'm leaning toward only using BP fuels. They exceed the detergent requirements for Top Tier but without the ethanol in their 87 octane fuel.

    Thoughts?
    It seems like you are paraphrasing a bit too much. What does the manual say exactly. For example, how are they defining "Top Tier"? Premium? 92 octane?



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    Re: Gas (not flatulence)

    Quote Originally Posted by jbhtexas View Post
    What kind of vehicle is it? I drove Acura's for many years, and the manuals always contained cautions about using higher octane, top grade fuels. I usually used 87 octane, occasionally a tank of 89 octane, and never had a problem. Specifying higher grade fuel is a way for the automakers to get the EPA mileage ratings up.

    Maybe more important than the brand of fuel is the reputation of the gas station. I don't know what it is like of up there, but down here, there are places known for watering down their fuels, franchise stores and independents alike. Every now and then on the news, you hear about one who over did it and causes a rash of auto problems. I own all diesels now. Diesel prices are about the same at every station, but by tracking mileage, I can tell who sells high quality fuel, and who doesn't.

    Also, off topic, if you are going to hate on the ethanol industry for being a scam, you best be hating on the entire petroleum industry as well. It's has become much more of a scam than the ethanol industry ever will be.
    I had a 2001 Lincoln Continental that recommended 91 Octane. It was fine on ethanol 89 octane but sometimes, out of state, there was only 87 regular available. Whenever I put in a tank of that the check engine light would come on. It ran okay, but when it got down to 1/2 a tank I'd put premium in to top it off and pretty soon the light would go off. That happened several times.

    I guess the car was able to manage but without those extra two octane it evidently was stretching the capacity of the engine management systems to deal with it.

    I, too, have been running ethanol for 30+ years and never had a problem with it. Don't agree with subsidizing it, but we're subsidizing other oil and energy production so I think it sort of levels the playing field. Also, most of the economic evaluations of it do not include any of the residual value of the byproduct after the corn is processed to make the ethanol, which I understand is significant.


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    Re: Gas (not flatulence)

    Quote Originally Posted by 00clone View Post
    I think the dislike (for me anyway) comes from the fact that it's subsidized. Naive at first, I was surprised when I went out of state and the Ethanol blends were more expensive than non-blended. Found out it's because we subsidize it. Ethanol, last time I knew, was more expensive than gas.

    I still use it, figure the price break is a 'prepayment discount', but I'm not big on the subsidy. I understand the logic behind it, and don't poo-poo those with other opinions, just my POV on it.
    See myself I don't mind the subsidy. I see it as helping the farmers of our fine State. JMO



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    Re: Gas (not flatulence)

    Quote Originally Posted by MeanDean View Post
    I had a 2001 Lincoln Continental that recommended 91 Octane. It was fine on ethanol 89 octane but sometimes, out of state, there was only 87 regular available. Whenever I put in a tank of that the check engine light would come on. It ran okay, but when it got down to 1/2 a tank I'd put premium in to top it off and pretty soon the light would go off. That happened several times.

    I guess the car was able to manage but without those extra two octane it evidently was stretching the capacity of the engine management systems to deal with it.

    I, too, have been running ethanol for 30+ years and never had a problem with it. Don't agree with subsidizing it, but we're subsidizing other oil and energy production so I think it sort of levels the playing field. Also, most of the economic evaluations of it do not include any of the residual value of the byproduct after the corn is processed to make the ethanol, which I understand is significant.
    When you get down to it, farming in America has grown dependant on being subsidized in so many ways.



  12. #12
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    Re: Gas (not flatulence)

    (I have never learned the proper use of the multi-quote. If someone can enlighten me I'd appreciate it.)

    isufbcurt, I don't hate ethanol. I'm sure it has lots of good uses, I just prefer not to use it in my car. After using it for years without ever questioning it, on a friend's suggestion I tried non-ethanol blended fuel and my mileage immediately improved by over 10% and has stayed there ever since.

    GoClones123, it's not referring to e85. There is a whole section in the manual warning that e85 is not compatible with this vehicle.

    jbhtexas, it's a '12 Elantra. I've never had a problem per se with 89 either. I used it for years. I just think if you don't need higher octane for knocking problems it is useless as it will decrease gas mileage. I don't hate either industry. Calling ethanol a scam was too strong a word. Regarding the oil companies, I believe market speculators and government regulation/policy are more to blame for high gas prices than the oil companies.

    Turn2, Top Tier designation does not refer to premium vs. low octane or to octane rating in any way. It only refers to specific formulation of detergents and ethanol. Check out toptiergas.com.

    jbhtexas, back to you. Some cars do, in fact, need higher octane fuel, like MeanDean's '01 Continental and others with high compression ratios. It is not to improve fuel economy. Supposedly with today's computer controlled ignitions there should not be any difference in fuel economy between 87 and 91 octane (but if one of them contains ethanol there might be.)

    I really enjoy these types of conversations. Now I'm going over to the flatulence thread to see what that's all about.



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    Re: Gas (not flatulence)

    (I have never learned the proper use of the multi-quote. If someone can enlighten me I'd appreciate it.)

    Click the little multiquote button for each post you want to quote. The button should change from a green + to a red -. Once you have them selected, click the quote button on the last one. Delete portions you don't need in each quote.




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    Re: Gas (not flatulence)

    While I don't think the use of ethanol reduces the use of oil when all costs are considered, if you're going to subsidize cash rich oil companies, might as well continue subsidizing the farmers too. I just wish they would put an income limit on it so millionnaire doctors and lawyers that never farmed a day in their life couldn't collect half a million dollar farm subsidy checks while they're lying on the beach in the Riviera. And they're often the first ones to complain about welfare for the poor.



  15. #15
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    Re: Gas (not flatulence)

    Ethanol burns just a little too hot for most car engines.



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