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  1. #1
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    Future B12 Expansion

    Due to the ever growing feeling that that the B12 is going to stay at 10 teams, Just adding TCU if Mizzou stays, or adding TCU and Louisville if Mizzou goes, I have some forward thinking that the powers that be at the B12 offices need to contemplate.

    First let me say I am the first one to laugh when Northern Illinois and Tulane are brought as members in the B12. Currently these schools lack the ability to compete in the B12, their athletes are not B12 caliber and their facilities certainly lack (exception, Tulane football). However, this weekend I was headed back to my home town in Iowa from the Chicagoland region and passed DeKalb on the way. So I tried to come up with a scenario in which they might be considered for membership in the B12. So here is what I came up with.

    B12 leadership decides to stay at 10 currently because schools like the idea of that extra TV money coming into their coffers; ISU is included look at the projects they announced shortly after the new Tier 2 deal was signed. So in knowing they are going to stay at 10 for now they decide instead of creating upheaval in a few years when the Tier 1 deal comes up (I believe it is in 5 years), they will be creative. They go to schools in lower level FBS conferences with large TV markets nearby, and with alumni bases that can sustain their competitiveness, also they would prefer they keep some regional shape to the conference they will not enter a state that doesn’t not border a B12 state, not limited to current members of the B12. Also these schools will not be in current B12 states. The B12 needs to be at a minimum of 12 football schools by the time of the Tier 1 rights deal. Leadership could decide to go larger than 12, however, the minimum they will have is 12.

    The following are the stipulations for football membership;
    50,000 seat stadium

    50% financing requirement from the alumni for any upgrades to facilities.

    Schools will be eligible to join the B12 starting the 2015 football season, you will only receive a partial share of TV revenue from the 2015 and 2016 football seasons, after completion of your renovations and the 5 year period you will receive a full share of
    the football TV revenue.

    You have 5 years to complete the necessary renovations to your football facilities to become competitive with the other schools in the B12.

    The following are the stipulations for full membership in the B12;

    Any necessary projects to compete in the B12 must be financed by a minimum of 50% alumni donations.

    An arena that can accommodate a minimum of 10,000 spectators for basketball.

    You will be eligible to begin competing in the B12 as a full member once your school has completed the 5 year period required for full football membership and the completion of any required upgrades to facilities to compete in the B12. You will immediately receive a full share of all revenue upon entrance as a full member.

    Academic membership in the B12 would be at the discretion of the school. The earliest it would be eligible to join would be, their first football season in the B12, after this point they are eligible to join at anytime, provided their other sports are not hindered in anyway by them joining the conference academically.

    This program would not be limited to NIU or Tulane it would apply to any FBS school in a state that shares a border with the B12. The B12 needs to find stability and diversity in its membership. Currently it is dominated by Texas and after that southern schools. A plan like this would allow the conference to identify eligible schools and bring them into the conference when it is best for all parties involved, all while not losing any money currently earmarked for current member schools. It would also provide new schools the opportunity to use the B12 to help become competitive upon entry.


    Last edited by boone7247; 10-10-2011 at 04:44 PM.
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    Re: Future B12 Expansion

    Ten will not last. Too easy to be raided by Slive. Delaney may come looking. Scott may be given a green light. We need 12 and a championship game for recruiting purposes and another $1M for all schools. The league race may be over buy early Nov if we stay at 10. Ten is too close to start of dissolution. Nine is a nightmare. Eight is failure.


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  3. #3
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    Re: Future B12 Expansion

    Quote Originally Posted by Wesley View Post
    Ten will not last. Too easy to be raided by Slive. Delaney may come looking. Scott may be given a green light. We need 12 and a championship game for recruiting purposes and another $1M for all schools. The league race may be over buy early Nov if we stay at 10. Ten is too close to start of dissolution. Nine is a nightmare. Eight is failure.
    I don't disagree with you that the B12 needs to get to 12 now. But I don't think they are going to, right now. I think they will open that up for the Tier 1 rights deal. That is why I proposed away for them to get small FBS schools that could potentially help the B12 be come a stable conference.


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    Re: Future B12 Expansion

    I don't mean to be that guy, but BORDER.



  5. #5
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    Re: Future B12 Expansion

    Quote Originally Posted by Frak View Post
    I don't mean to be that guy, but BORDER.
    You aren't that guy, you just can read, and obviously I can't spell. Thanks.


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    Re: Future B12 Expansion

    I'd like to see them get to 10 now for sure. If Mizzou leaves, that means either they bring in BYU for next fall or play at 9 until Louisville is able to join. But I do think that they need to have a solid 12 in place before the 1st tier rights get negotiated. I also think that Mizzou is starting to head back to the Big 12 view. By 2014, I'd like to see:

    ISU
    UT
    TT
    Baylor
    KSU
    KU
    TCU
    Mizzou...if not WVU
    OU
    OSU
    Louisville
    Tulane

    That is a strong conference, gets them into three new markets, all the additions except Louiville add academically. Here's how I see those additions:

    TCU - pros: competitive in FB, good academically, decent facilities, excellent media market
    cons: B12 already has that market, poor in most other sports, fan support is small for being in a major population area.

    BYU - pros: huge fanbase, semi-national name, great facilities, good academics, new media market
    cons: distance, can't play on Sundays, current TV contracts

    Louisville - pros: new media market, good facilities, decent but not rabid fanbase (at least in FB)
    cons: academics

    Tulane - pros: huge media market, good (pro) facilities, great academics
    cons: tiny fanbase and little tradition

    WV - pros: good fanbase, good facilities
    cons: poor academics, distance, small media market (unless they are counting Pittsburgh)


    Last edited by Frak; 10-10-2011 at 11:32 AM.

  7. #7
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    Re: Future B12 Expansion

    Quote Originally Posted by Frak View Post
    I'd like to see them get to 10 now for sure. If Mizzou leaves, that means either they bring in BYU for next fall or play at 9 until Louisville is able to join. But I do think that they need to have a solid 12 in place before the 1st tier rights get negotiated. I also think that Mizzou is starting to head back to the Big 12 view.
    I think you are right about Mizzou. They have some serious pressure on them from alumni to stay in the B12. I am not sure BYU is going to join, I am not sure they like the idea of giving up their rights. Also it seems possible that the Big East has identified who they want to expand with and BYU is on the list, along with Air Force.


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  8. #8
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    Re: Future B12 Expansion

    Quote Originally Posted by boone7247 View Post
    I think you are right about Mizzou. They have some serious pressure on them from alumni to stay in the B12. I am not sure BYU is going to join, I am not sure they like the idea of giving up their rights. Also it seems possible that the Big East has identified who they want to expand with and BYU is on the list, along with Air Force.
    I don't see any way that BYU (or most other teams) picks the Big East over the Big 12. Air Force, I could see just because they are not ready for B12 competition every week. But BYU? The Big 12 allows them to broadcast 3rd tier games plus most olympic sports on their own network. The Big 12 will pay millions more per year in conference revenue. Last year, the Big East handed out less in total FB TV revenue to their conference than a single Big 11 team made from their conference. You're talking something like $2M per year...I thought our $9M looked shabby. Now with the new 2nd tier rights, the Big 12 is going to be closer to $15-20M. What do you think the renegotiated Big East money will look like without Pitt and Syracuse?? How much do you think adding AF and Navy, ECU, Temple and UCF will help them? Ouch. No matter what, teams like Louisville are going to be putting off that discussion of raising exit fees as long as possible because they would jump for the Big 12 in a second. Even WVU would jump in a second and that one makes zero sense geographically or academically.



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    Re: Future B12 Expansion

    SIXTEEN tons and what do you get? More $$$.


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  10. #10
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    Re: Future B12 Expansion

    Quote Originally Posted by Frak View Post
    I don't see any way that BYU (or most other teams) picks the Big East over the Big 12. Air Force, I could see just because they are not ready for B12 competition every week. But BYU? The Big 12 allows them to broadcast 3rd tier games plus most olympic sports on their own network. The Big 12 will pay millions more per year in conference revenue. Last year, the Big East handed out less in total FB TV revenue to their conference than a single Big 11 team made from their conference. You're talking something like $2M per year...I thought our $9M looked shabby. Now with the new 2nd tier rights, the Big 12 is going to be closer to $15-20M. What do you think the renegotiated Big East money will look like without Pitt and Syracuse?? How much do you think adding AF and Navy, ECU, Temple and UCF will help them? Ouch. No matter what, teams like Louisville are going to be putting off that discussion of raising exit fees as long as possible because they would jump for the Big 12 in a second. Even WVU would jump in a second and that one makes zero sense geographically or academically.
    I don't disagree with your points, and what i stated was just speculation that you pick up off twitter and other message boards. However, the B12 was hot on BYU to start and certainly cooled when they offered TCU before BYU. We don't know if it was B12 media partners that said TCU is better than BYU or if BYU said we aren't giving up rights for 6 to 13 years. They could just have a fundemental difference that doesn't allow the logic you point out above to sink in. I mean in all honesty what AF's AD said about B12 competion is about the only logical statement anyone from any of these parties has actually said. Although I think the TCU add was logical for the B12.

    As far as BE media deal who knows. I don't know what NBC is going to be willing to pay to get football (bad football at that) to compete against ESPN.


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  11. #11
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    Re: Future B12 Expansion

    Quote Originally Posted by boone7247 View Post
    I don't disagree with your points, and what i stated was just speculation that you pick up off twitter and other message boards. However, the B12 was hot on BYU to start and certainly cooled when they offered TCU before BYU. We don't know if it was B12 media partners that said TCU is better than BYU or if BYU said we aren't giving up rights for 6 to 13 years. They could just have a fundemental difference that doesn't allow the logic you point out above to sink in. I mean in all honesty what AF's AD said about B12 competion is about the only logical statement anyone from any of these parties has actually said. Although I think the TCU add was logical for the B12.

    As far as BE media deal who knows. I don't know what NBC is going to be willing to pay to get football (bad football at that) to compete against ESPN.
    Obviously, whatever the BE gets, it's not going to be through ESPN. I'm guessing that bridge was burned when the BC AD came out and said that ESPN was behind their adding Syracuse and Pitt. The BE is going to be looking squarely at Fox and NBC.

    Who knows what the issue is with BYU. Maybe ESPN sees value in their contract with BYU and is advising the B12 to look at TCU. They definitely have a conflict of interests that everyone seems to be glossing over. BYU makes more sense than TCU in every aspect except for travel.

    And you are correct, the AF AD just said the most sensical statement that has come out of this whole realignment mess. Someone who actually cares about the student-athletes vs a couple million dollars? Crazy! It is unbelievable to me that a school could just drop all of its rivalries and traditions for a couple of mil a year, but they're sure doing it left and right.



  12. #12
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    Re: Future B12 Expansion

    Quote Originally Posted by Frak View Post
    Obviously, whatever the BE gets, it's not going to be through ESPN. I'm guessing that bridge was burned when the BC AD came out and said that ESPN was behind their adding Syracuse and Pitt. The BE is going to be looking squarely at Fox and NBC.

    Who knows what the issue is with BYU. Maybe ESPN sees value in their contract with BYU and is advising the B12 to look at TCU. They definitely have a conflict of interests that everyone seems to be glossing over. BYU makes more sense than TCU in every aspect except for travel.

    And you are correct, the AF AD just said the most sensical statement that has come out of this whole realignment mess. Someone who actually cares about the student-athletes vs a couple million dollars? Crazy! It is unbelievable to me that a school could just drop all of its rivalries and traditions for a couple of mil a year, but they're sure doing it left and right.
    ESPN has a clear conflict of interest in all of this. How can you be a news agency, entertainment provider, and resource facilitator at multiple schools, without having some conflict of interest. IMHO they are to big and control to much. I will be happy if Fox and NBC are able to grow their respective sports networks to compete with ESPN to keep them in check. Plus if they do it is better for us and for ISU as there will be more outlets to get content. Would love to see our First Tier rights end up on NBC.


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    Re: Future B12 Expansion

    we need someone in the conference we can beat,so we are not the cellar dweller much of the time. lets hope we can pound kansas every year so that they keep the cellar dweller title...


    doc

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    Re: Future B12 Expansion

    Big 12 is in no position to be choosy.



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    Re: Future B12 Expansion

    Quote Originally Posted by Senolcyc View Post
    Big 12 is in no position to be choosy.
    yes we are. We are a Major BCS conference. The only reason anyone won't want to come to the Big 12 is because of stability.

    The Big 12 and the Pac were in the same boat about the time this whole thing was started. The Pac's TV package was terrible and their sharing was worse. Thankfully for them, the AD's pulled their head out and realized that they were dooming themselves. They signed a new TV package, agreed to share equally, start a network and decided it was time to catch up with everyone else and start a championship game. These were radical changes for the Pac who like the B1G, doesn't like change.

    If the AD's of this conference can pull their heads out and think, they will due like the Pac. We have taken steps with the revenue sharing. The network needs to be figured out and teams need to be added to give us a championship game again.

    I think with the network, the conference needs to make a network in which by default all schools are apart of and all revenue from that network is shared equally with all the schools participating. If a school want's it own network, they can opt out, but they opt out of any revenue from the Big 12 network and the Big 12 network keeps it's name and priority for game picking order over individual networks. This makes the Big 12 network marketable and probably a lot more valuable than any one school network.


    Last edited by jaretac; 10-10-2011 at 04:04 PM.

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