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    Good "Big Picture" Read from ESPN

    "That leaves Baylor and Iowa State to fend for themselves."

    Big 12 schools face economic impact of shuffling - ESPN



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    Re: Good "Big Picture" Read from ESPN

    IMO, it is foolish to not keep the Big 12. BUT, if it does go down then the Big East would be the best landing spot. Basketball would be huge. And the Big East would definitely gain from the vacuum created by the Big 12 no longer existing. No Way does C-USA, MWC, WAC, or MAC fill that vacuum.

    The 16 team super conference has been tried before. And failed miserably. IMO, it could happen again.



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    Re: Good "Big Picture" Read from ESPN

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormin View Post
    IMO, it is foolish to not keep the Big 12. BUT, if it does go down then the Big East would be the best landing spot. Basketball would be huge. And the Big East would definitely gain from the vacuum created by the Big 12 no longer existing. No Way does C-USA, MWC, WAC, or MAC fill that vacuum.

    The 16 team super conference has been tried before. And failed miserably. IMO, it could happen again.
    Basketball would be huge...but say good-bye to the fun we had at conference basketball tournaments! While Madison Square Garden is legendary...NYC would not give us the same experience Kansas City has offered us! It would be sad to see that happen...but it looks like no matter what transpires...KC is going to come to an end!



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    Re: Good "Big Picture" Read from ESPN

    Quote Originally Posted by cyfanatic View Post
    Basketball would be huge...but say good-bye to the fun we had at conference basketball tournaments! While Madison Square Garden is legendary...NYC would not give us the same experience Kansas City has offered us! It would be sad to see that happen...but it looks like no matter what transpires...KC is going to come to an end!
    Man, how ****** would you be if you were one of the people who invested in the Sprint Center right now? The ONE semi-consistent thing they had to fill that arena with looks like it's going to be gone pretty quick.



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    Re: Good "Big Picture" Read from ESPN

    Quote Originally Posted by MNCyGuy View Post
    Man, how ****** would you be if you were one of the people who invested in the Sprint Center right now? The ONE semi-consistent thing they had to fill that arena with looks like it's going to be gone pretty quick.
    Going to KC for the Big XII Tourney was a great time. That city rolled out the red carpet for the fans and particularly the ISU fans because of the incredible numbers we always brought down there. It will be truly sad if that all goes away.



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    Re: Good "Big Picture" Read from ESPN

    Quote Originally Posted by MNCyGuy View Post
    Man, how ****** would you be if you were one of the people who invested in the Sprint Center right now? The ONE semi-consistent thing they had to fill that arena with looks like it's going to be gone pretty quick.
    Agree. That is one thing that baffles me about this entire process of realignment. There are so many business relationships that go way beyond school-to-school. Like the Sprint Center to the Big XII as you mentioned...how are contracts written so that entities such as the SC can protect themselves financially? Very complicated issues beyond who plays who on Saturday...



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    Re: Good "Big Picture" Read from ESPN

    It's sad how schools get upset when players are in a transfer frenzy, but now schools are doing the same thing on a bigger level.


    I guarantee bigger conferences means watered down level of play, more losses for more teams. It might be money at first, but fan bases will quickly grow to be unhappy.


    @RandomGeoFacts

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    Re: Good "Big Picture" Read from ESPN

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormin View Post
    IMO, it is foolish to not keep the Big 12. BUT, if it does go down then the Big East would be the best landing spot. Basketball would be huge. And the Big East would definitely gain from the vacuum created by the Big 12 no longer existing. No Way does C-USA, MWC, WAC, or MAC fill that vacuum.

    The 16 team super conference has been tried before. And failed miserably. IMO, it could happen again.
    It was tried once in a situation that was doomed to fail. Nobody cared about most of the teamsin the WAC, which means it had no chance of generating TV revenue, which means teams weren't going to make relevant money, which created instability.

    Saying "it didn't work before so it won't work now" is a faulty argument because the circumstances then are completely different than they are now - it's team's people care about getting paid much higher revenues. Saying that it won't work for the SEC or the B1G because the WAC failed is flawed because if the SEC or B1G fails it won't be for the same reasons why the WAC failed.


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  9. #9
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    Re: Good "Big Picture" Read from ESPN

    Should have a jimlad after the word "Good" in the heading.

    None of this is good, and most of this crap is so short-sided, it gives me the $#*'s.
    Along with that other on-line article where some 'expert's pick the top 64 programs and we'd be left out. Those hacks have to produce something to prove they are not unemployed.

    Simple fact is this: these new mega-conferences, should they come to be, would kill college football. There would be no way a Boise State (who gets into the Top 64 because of their recent level of success) could rise from lower ranks to where it is now. No way a TCU can raise itself either. This would squash that, and is what the Notre Dame's & Michigan's want (although Boise & TCU have been better than both of these so-called 'elite' programs for a while now) as well as the Texas's & Alabama's.

    Does Boise State as an academic institution rate as high as ISU? No. Do they have lower academic standards for their student athletes? Yes. We should have lowered out standards years ago & simply brought in athletes, kept them here no matter what, & fielded the best team $ could buy. Wait, that sounds like Auburn.

    Don't know who I want to give the big eF-U to anymore. Easily thought it was Texas (& they are my new Nebraska/Notre Dame x 2), but now I think it may be A&M and OU.

    Actually, I finally believe it is back in the mirror. We should have grabbed everyone in the league other than Texas, said goodbye - become an independent & have your own network, take in BYU, keep Colorado & Nebraska, and stay with a Big XII.

    Obviously this cannot happen now with all that has transpired, but hopefully our leaders have a plan with other schools and we strongly and proactively sell ourselves and not settle for lessor conference affiliations.

    A lot of people commenting on the situation seem to agree 16 team conferences have not & will not work. I believe one could, if it is created with more than just football/athletics in mind. A conference of like academic institutions combined with rivalries due to normal geographic proximities would produce a conference having the ability to succeed going forward. Not some mishmash of schools here & there across the landscape because, at the time of its creation, it was collectively a number of schools with successful football programs. I seem more prone to watch the Colorado - Colorado St game on the MW channel because the game is a rivalry game & there is a greater energy to it more so than other MWC games. If ISU is playing Rutgers, I think I'd be a whole less excited than if we were playing Purdue/Indiana/Minny/Northwestern - & you could substitute Mizzou, KSU, KU for ISU, it doesn't matter.

    As to they ya-hoos stating ISU should not have spent their $ on projects until they had the actual % in hand, ISU had it via a contract that your school was a part of. Your school is getting out of it, so you will have to pay. So, a lot of any additional $ (if not more for a short time) from being in the SEC will be paid back to the Big XII teams you chose to leave just after signing a new contract.


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  10. #10
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    Re: Good "Big Picture" Read from ESPN

    The one thing that gets me is when the terms "academics" and "student-athletes" are used in the realignment talks...lets be honest about this: the realignment talks have NOTHING to do with either of those terms! They just don't matter...this isn't even remotely close to being about or involving academics!



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    Re: Good "Big Picture" Read from ESPN

    Quote Originally Posted by jdoggivjc View Post
    It was tried once in a situation that was doomed to fail. Nobody cared about most of the teamsin the WAC, which means it had no chance of generating TV revenue, which means teams weren't going to make relevant money, which created instability.

    Saying "it didn't work before so it won't work now" is a faulty argument because the circumstances then are completely different than they are now - it's team's people care about getting paid much higher revenues. Saying that it won't work for the SEC or the B1G because the WAC failed is flawed because if the SEC or B1G fails it won't be for the same reasons why the WAC failed.
    IMO, it will fail again. LOGISTICS...other than the Big Ten there is not any real close proximity. Travel costs will escalate. BIG issue in the non-revenue sports. And the Time Zone problems will rear its ugly head as well.

    RECORDS.......In most cases there will only be a couple of teams that will rise to the top and get the undefeated season or 1 or 2 losses that will make them elite teams. The rest are a bunch of mediocrity. It really is no coincidence that teams like TCU and BSU and others have risen to BCS Bowls from Non-AQ conferences. Good teams that play a bunch of nobodys. That leads to records of undefeated or 1 loss teams. Play in a tough conference like the Big 12 or the SEC and the teams cannibalize each other. Witness our convincing win over Northern Illinois last year. We are clearly the better team. But they win out in their weak conference and go to a Bowl. Same thing could happen this year with Iowa. We win. Weak conference could mean they go to a Bowl.

    So out of 16 teams you will have 2 really special teams with great records. 3 tops. A 10 team league will have 2 really special teams. 3 tops. Mega conferences leads to a large amount of mediocrity. Nebraska, Oklahoma, Colorado finished Top 3 back in the '70's. With Mega Conferences and championship games that will NEVER happen again. And I don't really see the BCS Bowl status changing from a maximum of 2 BCS Bowls per conference. After a few years of that BS, teams like OU, OSU, and aTm will be left scratching their collective ***** wondering what they did to themselves.

    Big Ten is not going to expand. NO NEED to do so. SEC might take a 14th team......13 is unlucky. West Virginia could get poached IMO. Pac ?? would take OU and OSU and go to 14. But do they really want 16 and divide the fixed amount of money further??

    This all comes down to money. And once you start dividing the pie into smaller pieces it doesn't work. TCU was a nobody is the SWC. Now they are considered a football power??? That sort of thing does not happen in the Super Mega Conferences. The competition is too tough. The Rigors of playing Top 25 teams every week takes its toll.

    The Big 12 was considered a Super Football Conference when it was formed. Look at the cannibalization that occurred.



  12. #12
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    Re: Good "Big Picture" Read from ESPN

    Quote Originally Posted by BigLame View Post
    Does Boise State as an academic institution rate as high as ISU? No. Do they have lower academic standards for their student athletes? Yes. We should have lowered out standards years ago & simply brought in athletes, kept them here no matter what, & fielded the best team $ could buy. Wait, that sounds like Auburn.


    Actually, I finally believe it is back in the mirror. We should have grabbed everyone in the league other than Texas, said goodbye - become an independent & have your own network, take in BYU, keep Colorado & Nebraska, and stay with a Big XII.


    As to they ya-hoos stating ISU should not have spent their $ on projects until they had the actual % in hand, ISU had it via a contract that your school was a part of. Your school is getting out of it, so you will have to pay. So, a lot of any additional $ (if not more for a short time) from being in the SEC will be paid back to the Big XII teams you chose to leave just after signing a new contract.
    Wow...

    Paragraph 1: ISU COULDN'T do what Boise St did in lowering academic standards - accepting partial and non-qualifiers is against Big 12 Conference rules. It's the reason why Nebraska has sucked in football for the last decade - they built their legacy on partial qualifiers, but when the conference formed they were told they had to recruit athletes with the same academic credibility as the rest of the schools they compete against, only to find out that none of the best athletes with at least half a brain wanted to play in Lincoln.

    Boise St is nothing but this generation's Nebraska. Force Boise St to recruit fully-qualified athletes and they're nothing more than a mid-level WAC team.

    Paragraph 2: take a look at BYU's home schedule for next season and ask yourself if independence is working out well for them. A few more seasons of that type of schedulong and season ticket sales are going to plummet. Nobody of relevance wants to play BYU in Provo, and, without conference affiliation nobody has to. If ISU pulled the same stunt it would be just as bad for us.

    Paragraph 3: When exactly WERE we supposed to build those projects then? When we got better assurances that the conference was going to survive? When was that going to happen? 5 years from now? 10? And fall that much further behind in the facilities arms race than we already are? ISU wasnt going to get any better assurances of longevity of the Big 12 than it got - a renewed second tier, a promising outlook of what first-tier revenue would look like when those contracts were renegotiated in a few years, and a promise of commitment from all members. How was ISU supposed to know two of the biggest players would attempt to renege on the contract in just one year? Why do you think ISU hasn't given up it's rifts to litigate? Both schools have potentially caused severe harm to ISU, and may end up paying out of their arses as a result.


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  13. #13
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    Re: Good "Big Picture" Read from ESPN

    Quote Originally Posted by jdoggivjc View Post
    Wow...

    Paragraph 1: ISU COULDN'T do what Boise St did in lowering academic standards - accepting partial and non-qualifiers is against Big 12 Conference rules. It's the reason why Nebraska has sucked in football for the last decade - they built their legacy on partial qualifiers, but when the conference formed they were told they had to recruit athletes with the same academic credibility as the rest of the schools they compete against, only to find out that none of the best athletes with at least half a brain wanted to play in Lincoln.

    Boise St is nothing but this generation's Nebraska. Force Boise St to recruit fully-qualified athletes and they're nothing more than a mid-level WAC team.

    Paragraph 2: take a look at BYU's home schedule for next season and ask yourself if independence is working out well for them. A few more seasons of that type of schedulong and season ticket sales are going to plummet. Nobody of relevance wants to play BYU in Provo, and, without conference affiliation nobody has to. If ISU pulled the same stunt it would be just as bad for us.

    Paragraph 3: When exactly WERE we supposed to build those projects then? When we got better assurances that the conference was going to survive? When was that going to happen? 5 years from now? 10? And fall that much further behind in the facilities arms race than we already are? ISU wasnt going to get any better assurances of longevity of the Big 12 than it got - a renewed second tier, a promising outlook of what first-tier revenue would look like when those contracts were renegotiated in a few years, and a promise of commitment from all members. How was ISU supposed to know two of the biggest players would attempt to renege on the contract in just one year? Why do you think ISU hasn't given up it's rifts to litigate? Both schools have potentially caused severe harm to ISU, and may end up paying out of their arses as a result.
    Disagree with Paragraph 2. The fans will come because BYU will have great records playing nobodys. Being undefeated back in the '80's and beating a mediocre Michigan team led to BYU winning a NC. That is their most likely way of winning another. The Mormons have BIG families. They will have no trouble filling their stadium.



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    Re: Good "Big Picture" Read from ESPN

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormin View Post
    IMO, it will fail again. LOGISTICS...other than the Big Ten there is not any real close proximity. Travel costs will escalate. BIG issue in the non-revenue sports. And the Time Zone problems will rear its ugly head as well.

    RECORDS.......In most cases there will only be a couple of teams that will rise to the top and get the undefeated season or 1 or 2 losses that will make them elite teams. The rest are a bunch of mediocrity. It really is no coincidence that teams like TCU and BSU and others have risen to BCS Bowls from Non-AQ conferences. Good teams that play a bunch of nobodys. That leads to records of undefeated or 1 loss teams. Play in a tough conference like the Big 12 or the SEC and the teams cannibalize each other. Witness our convincing win over Northern Illinois last year. We are clearly the better team. But they win out in their weak conference and go to a Bowl. Same thing could happen this year with Iowa. We win. Weak conference could mean they go to a Bowl.

    So out of 16 teams you will have 2 really special teams with great records. 3 tops. A 10 team league will have 2 really special teams. 3 tops. Mega conferences leads to a large amount of mediocrity. Nebraska, Oklahoma, Colorado finished Top 3 back in the '70's. With Mega Conferences and championship games that will NEVER happen again. And I don't really see the BCS Bowl status changing from a maximum of 2 BCS Bowls per conference. After a few years of that BS, teams like OU, OSU, and aTm will be left scratching their collective ***** wondering what they did to themselves.

    Big Ten is not going to expand. NO NEED to do so. SEC might take a 14th team......13 is unlucky. West Virginia could get poached IMO. Pac ?? would take OU and OSU and go to 14. But do they really want 16 and divide the fixed amount of money further??

    This all comes down to money. And once you start dividing the pie into smaller pieces it doesn't work. TCU was a nobody is the SWC. Now they are considered a football power??? That sort of thing does not happen in the Super Mega Conferences. The competition is too tough. The Rigors of playing Top 25 teams every week takes its toll.

    The Big 12 was considered a Super Football Conference when it was formed. Look at the cannibalization that occurred.
    The reason why I call your arguments into question is because it has been show that it can work. Take, for instance, the Big East. Yeah, there are only 8 football teams, but there are 16 schools in the non-revenue sports, and they are flung just about everywhere east of the Mississippi River, from New England to Chicago to Florida. And coming soon the Texas Metroplex. This is a footprint larger than any of the proposed superconferences nee the Pac 16. Yet it works and it's stable - the only reason why the Catholic schools are threatening to leave is because they don't want the conference to go to 20+ teams. Otherwise they're happy with the Big East.

    CUSA and WAC, other than teams wanting to join BCS leagues, are also large footprint conferences that are working logistically.

    This is why I don't buy into the superconferences will never work due to logistical reasons argument - because smaller conferences with greater footprints and logistical nightmares are making it work despite much smaller revenues.

    If the superconferences fail, it won't be because they can't make them work logistically - I've already demonstrated that smaller conferences with greater footprints with lesser resources are able to make them work. If there is anything that will destroy a superconference, it will be only one thing - the very same one and only thing that is destroying the Big 12 - EGO.


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    Re: Good "Big Picture" Read from ESPN

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormin View Post
    Disagree with Paragraph 2. The fans will come because BYU will have great records playing nobodys. Being undefeated back in the '80's and beating a mediocre Michigan team led to BYU winning a NC. That is their most likely way of winning another. The Mormons have BIG families. They will have no trouble filling their stadium.
    Perhaps they will, perhaps they won't. But, considering the 2012 home schedule, there is already grumbling that going independent might have been a mistake because they didn't fully consider the law of unintended consequences, especially the inability to schedule quality home games.


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