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  1. #1
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    How I see the rivalry

    Here's how I look at this rivalry.

    The reason Iowa fans complain more about having nothing to gain, is because, let's face it, they don't. Iowa in 2002 would have been in the NC game had it not been for a mediocre ISU team upsetting the future #3 Hawks.

    In 2004, the Hawks were on their way to a 10-2 season, but narrowly avoided the upset to a 7-5 team.

    In 2005, the Hawks were #8 in the nation and were demolished by a 7-6 ISU team.

    I'm not going to mention 2006, because that season doesn't really count.

    But looking at the past 5 years, Iowa has had lots to lose in this game. ISU has had everything to gain. 4 of the 5 games have been a top 25 Iowa team playing an un-ranked ISU team.

    The argument "well Iowa would just schedule another cream puff" is, quite frankly, bull. Iowa had a 4 game series scheduled with Missouri, who backed out for Arkansas State. It's been made public that the Hawks have tried to get a series with Nebraska again, but the dates didn't match up.

    There have also been mentions of a BigTen/SEC Challenge sometime in the future.

    The Syracuse game was schedule 5+ years ago when the 'Cuse were still decent. Iowa signed a deal with Pitt when Pitt went to a BCS game. Iowa also signed a 2 game series with NIU when they were in their prime.

    Iowa's weak schedule isn't for the lack of trying, but rather the lack of opponents staying at the level they were at.

    So, if this game were dis-continued, it would be likely that Iowa would schedule a middle of the pack team from another BCS conference. But why should they schedule a USC, Texas, or Florida? Iowa has done plenty well against big name teams like that in the bowl games.

    Another BCS team, even if they are at the level of ISU (Arizona and Syracuse 5 years ago), it gets the Hawks more national exposer, which is good for recruiting. An in-state rivalry game that is shown on the Versus network, with a lack of hype isn't good, for either team.

    So enough with this "Iowa just doesn't want to chance playing ISU anymore, and they'd schedule an easier team."

    Iowa is 38-16 all time against ISU (67%), have won 3 of the last 4 meetings, and usually have bigger hype surrounding them.


    The artist formerly known as SouthernHawk

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    Re: How I see the rivalry

    2006 the ISU win got you into a bowl game. But like you said, that doesn't count...



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    Re: How I see the rivalry

    Quote Originally Posted by aeroclone08 View Post
    2006 the ISU win got you into a bowl game. But like you said, that doesn't count...
    I excluded 2006, because that season was bad for both teams, bowling or not. If Iowa had missed a bowl game because they played a different opponent, then they would have deserved to be left out.


    The artist formerly known as SouthernHawk

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    Re: How I see the rivalry

    3 out of 4 is a pretty biased way to recount the series, about as valid as saying ISU has won the last 6 of 9. In my book if you want to recount recent history either 3 to 2 in the last five or 6 to 4 in the last ten. You'll notice those are both 60% going either way.


    When all is said and done, more is said than done

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    Re: How I see the rivalry

    Good analysis, SouthernHawk. However, most of the arguments I've seen while looking at some Iowa forums support dropping ISU for a "high-quality" opponent. If ISU is so inferior and not worth Iowa's time, why not keep them on the schedule and replace someone like Western Michigan or NIU with a team that would bring more exposure? There's three other non-conference slots, use 'em.


    Last edited by AirWalke; 09-11-2007 at 07:58 PM. Reason: Changed the wording in my last sentence
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    Re: How I see the rivalry

    Iowa in 2002 would have been in the NC game had it not been for a mediocre ISU team upsetting the future #3 Hawks.

    In 2004, the Hawks were on their way to a 10-2 season, but narrowly avoided the upset to a 7-5 team.

    In 2005, the Hawks were #8 in the nation and were demolished by a 7-6 ISU team.
    How about this - Iowa takes care of business in these games and it isn't an issue. The problem isn't ISU - it's losing to ISU. That's not ISU's fault, that's Iowa's.

    So, if this game were dis-continued, it would be likely that Iowa would schedule a middle of the pack team from another BCS conference. But why should they schedule a USC, Texas, or Florida? Iowa has done plenty well against big name teams like that in the bowl games.
    1-3 is plenty well good?




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    Re: How I see the rivalry

    Quote Originally Posted by HGPuck View Post
    3 out of 4 is a pretty biased way to recount the series, about as valid as saying ISU has won the last 6 of 9. In my book if you want to recount recent history either 3 to 2 in the last five or 6 to 4 in the last ten. You'll notice those are both 60% going either way.
    I should have gone from 2002 on since that's the main argument I was making. In that case it was 3 of the last 5 for Iowa. You are correct.


    The artist formerly known as SouthernHawk

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    Re: How I see the rivalry

    But what you aren't explaining is how Iowa can be so incredible all those years but still lose to a mediocre ISU team. Why is that? That can't be a coincidence 5 years. I think Iowa was better some of those years but then why didn't they win? You can't tell me that Iowa had incredibly tough schedules each of those years either. The Big Ten was down while Iowa was up and it wasn't a coincidence.


    A program isn't built on one player and it doesn't succeed because of one player, thus a program won't fail if it doesn't get that one player.

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    Re: How I see the rivalry

    The 2002 game did not cost Iowa the NC. Even if they would have went undefeated they would not have passed up Ohio State or Miami. ISU did the country a favor by not having a BCS scandal.



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    Re: How I see the rivalry

    Quote Originally Posted by AirWalke View Post
    Good analysis, SouthernHawk. However, most of the arguments I've seen while looking at some Iowa forums support dropping ISU for a "high-quality" opponent. If ISU is so inferior and not worth Iowa's time, why not keep them on the schedule and replace someone like Western Michigan or NIU with a team that would bring more exposure? There's four non-conference games, use 'em.
    See, I'm not one that thinks a "higher quality opponent" is a good argument either. ISU is plenty quality enough in comparison to some of the teams on the schedule.

    My main beef is that with the 4 OOC games, it could be just one more game to have more exposer.

    Unfortunately, I'm not Barta. And unfortunately, Barta has ISU and UNI on the schedule next year. That's even less national exposer.


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    Re: How I see the rivalry

    I'm a Hawk fan and Cyclone fan (seems to be a rare thing these days). The game isn't supposed to be about both teams having something to gain from it, other than bragging rights. That's what a rivalry is, period. Its all about bragging rights.

    The biggest problem I tend to have with Hawk fans in general is that they have a wildly inflated view of how good the Hawks generally are. They're quick to make excuses for losses, but will not acknowledge those same excuses when made by fans of other teams.

    In general, I believe both teams have the same thing to gain from playing the game...bragging rights. That's all its about.

    I also feel compelled to mention that the 2005 "#8" Hawks finished unranked and 7-5, so we didn't really do much to hurt you that year. I agree that the 2002 game was an upset, but Iowa would likely still lost out on the NC game to Ohio State, based on BCS projections that I saw at the time.



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    Re: How I see the rivalry

    Quote Originally Posted by BryceC View Post
    How about this - Iowa takes care of business in these games and it isn't an issue. The problem isn't ISU - it's losing to ISU. That's not ISU's fault, that's Iowa's.
    Bingo! That's what Iowa fans can't explain. They want to say how they should have been in the NC game if it weren't for ISU but I don't think anybody is using half their brain if they try to argue that ISU could have stopped a legit NC contender any of those years.

    So it leaves a couple options.

    1. ISU was better
    2. ISU was better coached
    3. ISU cheated
    4. Iowa was over-rated

    Personally I think ISU was better some years and might have been more prepared one year but IA was over rated all 5 years. In an of those options, it doesn't sound like something that happens to a truly great Iowa team in my opinion.

    IA has been over rated more times that Notre Dame which is quite an achievment.


    Last edited by Jeremy; 09-11-2007 at 08:03 PM.
    A program isn't built on one player and it doesn't succeed because of one player, thus a program won't fail if it doesn't get that one player.

  13. #13
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    Re: How I see the rivalry

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy View Post
    But what you aren't explaining is how Iowa can be so incredible all those years but still lose to a mediocre ISU team. Why is that? That can't be a coincidence 5 years. I think Iowa was better some of those years but then why didn't they win? You can't tell me that Iowa had incredibly tough schedules each of those years either. The Big Ten was down while Iowa was up and it wasn't a coincidence.
    ISU, IMO, played Iowa above their skill level. Not a shot at ISU, but ISU struggled in the Big12 - a conference that has been dominated by the BigTen in recent years.

    Iowa's schedule may not have been extremely difficult, but the same Iowa team that was within 7 points of Florida in 2005 lost to ISU by 20. ISU isn't 13 points better than Florida.


    Quote Originally Posted by cycfan1 View Post
    The 2002 game did not cost Iowa the NC. Even if they would have went undefeated they would not have passed up Ohio State or Miami. ISU did the country a favor by not having a BCS scandal.
    Actually, I think they would have. Iowa had road wins over PSU, UM (34-9 when UM was #8), Minnesota, and Indiana. Iowa had home wins over a good Purdue team, a good UW team, and a good MSU team.

    Ohio State narrowly escaped almost all of their games. Had their records been equal, Iowa would have been in the NC game, whether or not they deserved to be there.


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    Re: How I see the rivalry

    In the last 9 years, ISU leads with 6 wins....which is my ISU spin on it. You have your spin on it and that is fine. The Hawks never wanted to get rid of the in-state series when EIU was killing us 63-3, but now that ISU has made it respectible they don't want it anymore. That's typical Hawk arrogance.

    Me thinks it has more to do with EIU not liking the fact that Pollard isn't the follower of all things started by Hawks and actually is the instigator of some smack talk which Mr. Hawk cannot stand. Me also thinks that when Chizik gets this program into shape then ISU will be the 63-3 victor since the Hawks have been no more then mediocre since their good season 3-4 yrs back and they are slipping in their own crap trying to get away from this series as soon as they can.



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    Re: How I see the rivalry

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy View Post
    Bingo! That's what Iowa fans can't explain. They want to say how they should have been in the NC game if it weren't for ISU but I don't think anybody is using half their brain if they try to argue that ISU could have stopped a legit NC contender any of those years.

    So it leaves a couple options.

    1. ISU was better
    2. ISU was better coached
    3. ISU cheated
    4. Iowa was over-rated

    Personally I think ISU was better some years and might have been more prepared one year but IA was over rated all 5 years. In an of those options, it doesn't sound like something that happens to a truly great Iowa team in my opinion.

    IA has been over rated more times that Notre Dame which is quite an achievment.
    I fail to see how Iowa was overrated? Other than the bowl game against USC in 2002, Iowa faired very well against their next two SEC opponents, who were both top 20 teams.

    Iowa in 2005 was overrated, no question about it. But Iowa 2002-2004, with 10 (or more) wins per season makes it hard to argue that a team is overrated.


    The artist formerly known as SouthernHawk

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