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    Maybe its good we didn't go to a bowl...

    The Wiz of Odds: The Bowls: Silly Extravagance or Worthwhile Tradition?

    A very good summary of last year's bowl games.

    A lot of discussion about absorbed tickets and the ridiculous expenses that causes athletic departments.

    Interesting take on Iowa and UCONN in the article:

    Iowa reported data one way to the NCAA and told the public another story. Its report to the NCAA listed $442,525 in costs for absorbed tickets, including $361,171 that was picked up by the Big Ten.

    But when the school released a final report on May 5, it failed to include the $361,171. So the school, which fell 6,745 short of selling its allotment of tickets to the Insight Bowl, magically reported a surplus of $382,500. The creative accounting seemingly made Iowa the most profitable team of the postseason, besting Ohio State’s $288,876 return on the Sugar Bowl.
    Combined, Connecticut and Oklahoma sold only 8,338 of their allotted 35,000 tickets. That left the schools and their conferences on the hook for a jaw-dropping $5.14 million in "absorbed" tickets — or tickets that go unsold to the public or have to be purchased by the university for use by staff, families of players, coaches and even the band.


    Last edited by cycloneworld; 05-17-2011 at 11:28 AM.

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    Re: Maybe its good we didn't go to a bowl...

    I can't open the link from my office, but I'd still prefer us to go to a bowl.

    There are many reasons why these schools lost money:
    1. With Iowa, the expectation was going to the BCS bowl. Turned out the team didn't perform close to the expectations at all.
    2. OU: who wants to watch OU vs UConn ? Uconn was not a very good team. They were lucky to win a very weak Big East
    3. UConn: they are not a FB school - they don't have the "power" to attract fans. Plus the location didn't help either.

    Certain things related to the bowls, e.g ticket allotment, etc have become ridiculous. That's why it's important to go to a "good" bowl



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    Re: Maybe its good we didn't go to a bowl...

    The UConn/Okla Fiesta Bowl was a uniquely bad situation and will rarely happen. UConn fans are all about basketball and those that do follow football knew they were going to get hammered. Long and expense trip for that. Oklahoma fans weren't excited about the match-up at all, either. Going to a bowl is a good thing almost every time. There are too many bowls. But until the market corrects itself, you play to go to bowl games.



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    Re: Maybe its good we didn't go to a bowl...

    There are other benefits to bowling besides money.

    If ISU would have gone to a bowl last year they would not have had the same cirmustances that Iowa, OU, or UConn had. We probably would have sold close to our allotment of tickets to a minor bowl game. At worst we would have broken even or only lost a slight amount.

    The payoff in extra practices for deveolping players and extra exposure for a building program would offset any cost of the bowl game.

    The examples the story cite are extreme examples where a team like Iowa fell so far short of expectations that they wouldn't have sold a lot of tickets no matter what. The OU/UConn game was a terrible matchup to put in the Fiesta. The BCS comittee made a big mistake with that. Of course an average Big East team like UConn, with a very small football fanbase isn't going to buy a lot of tickets for any bowl, much less one across the country.

    In short, ISU will probably always benefit from going to any bowl we can go to.



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    Re: Maybe its good we didn't go to a bowl...

    I don't think Iowa sold it's entire allotment even when we made the Orange Bowl, though I could be mistaken.



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    Re: Maybe its good we didn't go to a bowl...

    From a prestige standpoint it is bad that we didn’t go to a bowl. I mean there are 70 teams now that play in a bowl game. If I’m a recruit and I see that a team didn’t go to a bowl I’m thinking they are not even in the top HALF of the schools. This would be a misconception because ISU was probably better than some of the smaller conference schools that went to bowl games but perception is reality and not going to a bowl game is BAD.

    The money that teams have to spend is stupid. But if the schools didn’t buy the tickets then no one would and then there wouldn’t be as many bowl games (probably not a bad idea!!) but since every school wants to be able to say that they went to a bowl game the AD eats the cost and tries to make it up somewhere else in the budget.

    The part that no one mentions is that each program hopes that by going to a bowl game, ticket sales for the next season will increase and therefore offset some of the costs of the bowl game or even exceed these costs.



    “It’s beyond pride. It’s a restored trust. There’s a confidence again, a passion that teeters on swagger. More than anything, (Iowa State head coach Paul Rhoads) has restored the Iowa State “it” factor, the steadfast belief that it is great to be a Cyclone...the man’s enthusiasm is genuine to the core...”
    – columnist Sean Keeler, Des Moines Register

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    Re: Maybe its good we didn't go to a bowl...

    Quote Originally Posted by edr247 View Post
    I don't think Iowa sold it's entire allotment even when we made the Orange Bowl, though I could be mistaken.
    Yeah but I also think that had more to do with the fact that if you bought them straight from the Orange Bowl the seat choices were so much better. If I remember right the universities were given tickets in the corner sections so most people didn't go through the universities. My neighbor went and he got onto the OB website right after it was announced and got 40 yard tickets about 15 rows up, way better than some of the donors who bought through Iowa got.


    Yeah TOAST!!!

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    Re: Maybe its good we didn't go to a bowl...

    To me the main point is that the bowl system is completely broken financially. When 25 percent of the total expenses listed on these reports went to subsidize unused tickets something is wrong. What a ripoff!

    Of course at the end of the article they say that only 14 D1-A athletic departments actually operate in the black so you could make a pretty good argument that college sports in general is broken.



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    Re: Maybe its good we didn't go to a bowl...

    Quote Originally Posted by cyhiphopp View Post
    There are other benefits to bowling besides money.

    If ISU would have gone to a bowl last year they would not have had the same cirmustances that Iowa, OU, or UConn had. We probably would have sold close to our allotment of tickets to a minor bowl game. At worst we would have broken even or only lost a slight amount.

    The payoff in extra practices for deveolping players and extra exposure for a building program would offset any cost of the bowl game.

    The examples the story cite are extreme examples where a team like Iowa fell so far short of expectations that they wouldn't have sold a lot of tickets no matter what. The OU/UConn game was a terrible matchup to put in the Fiesta. The BCS comittee made a big mistake with that. Of course an average Big East team like UConn, with a very small football fanbase isn't going to buy a lot of tickets for any bowl, much less one across the country.

    In short, ISU will probably always benefit from going to any bowl we can go to.
    This wrapped up pretty much everything I was about to say. The UCONN/OU/Iowa example is hardly the typical situation. Those things happen every year, but we're talking about 2 bowls out of like 34. Not exactly a majority there.

    For ISU, a bowl game will almost always be a good thing. Though it would be great to see Rhoads get the program to where an Insight Bowl IS a bit of a disappointment.


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    Re: Maybe its good we didn't go to a bowl...

    Quote Originally Posted by EggMcClone View Post
    To me the main point is that the bowl system is completely broken financially. When 25 percent of the total expenses listed on these reports went to subsidize unused tickets something is wrong. What a ripoff!

    Of course at the end of the article they say that only 14 D1-A athletic departments actually operate in the black so you could make a pretty good argument that college sports in general is broken.

    This is true from a business model standpoint but unless we only want to have Football and MBB as our only sports then college athletics cant be viewed as a business.

    None of the other sports consistently make money at ISU or other schools except MAYBE WBB at some of the "power" schools. I could be wrong on this assupmtion but does anyone know the financials for ISU WBB? I'm pretty sure we are near the top for attendance and I would venture to guess that WBB alone operates in the Red.

    I think the bowl system is a joke. But there is way to much $$ involved for the NCAA and the BCS to change. Unless of course our govt can fix everything

    Edit: The biggest benefit for ISU going to a bowl is the added publicity and the extra practices that others have already mentioned.


    “It’s beyond pride. It’s a restored trust. There’s a confidence again, a passion that teeters on swagger. More than anything, (Iowa State head coach Paul Rhoads) has restored the Iowa State “it” factor, the steadfast belief that it is great to be a Cyclone...the man’s enthusiasm is genuine to the core...”
    – columnist Sean Keeler, Des Moines Register

  11. #11
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    Re: Maybe its good we didn't go to a bowl...

    Quote Originally Posted by CykoAGR View Post
    This is true from a business model standpoint but unless we only want to have Football and MBB as our only sports then college athletics cant be viewed as a business.

    None of the other sports consistently make money at ISU or other schools except MAYBE WBB at some of the "power" schools. I could be wrong on this assupmtion but does anyone know the financials for ISU WBB? I'm pretty sure we are near the top for attendance and I would venture to guess that WBB alone operates in the Red.

    I think the bowl system is a joke. But there is way to much $$ involved for the NCAA and the BCS to change. Unless of course our govt can fix everything

    Edit: The biggest benefit for ISU going to a bowl is the added publicity and the extra practices that others have already mentioned.
    This wouldn't be the case at most schools, but I wouldn't be surprised if wrestling at least breaks even at a few schools (namely a handful in Iowa and Oklahoma).


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  12. #12
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    Re: Maybe its good we didn't go to a bowl...

    Quote Originally Posted by CykoAGR View Post
    This is true from a business model standpoint but unless we only want to have Football and MBB as our only sports then college athletics cant be viewed as a business.

    None of the other sports consistently make money at ISU or other schools except MAYBE WBB at some of the "power" schools. I could be wrong on this assupmtion but does anyone know the financials for ISU WBB? I'm pretty sure we are near the top for attendance and I would venture to guess that WBB alone operates in the Red.

    I think the bowl system is a joke. But there is way to much $$ involved for the NCAA and the BCS to change. Unless of course our govt can fix everything

    Edit: The biggest benefit for ISU going to a bowl is the added publicity and the extra practices that others have already mentioned.
    The biggest benefit to teams is the extra practices - it's like an extra set of spring practices. The NCAA could level the playing field on this very easily if they would allow all schools (not just those going to bowl games) to have the same number of practices. It is the extra practices that help get schools over the hump to become better - when you go to a bowl game it puts you that much further ahead than those that don't.



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    Re: Maybe its good we didn't go to a bowl...

    Quote Originally Posted by sunnysideup View Post
    Yeah but I also think that had more to do with the fact that if you bought them straight from the Orange Bowl the seat choices were so much better. If I remember right the universities were given tickets in the corner sections so most people didn't go through the universities. My neighbor went and he got onto the OB website right after it was announced and got 40 yard tickets about 15 rows up, way better than some of the donors who bought through Iowa got.
    This is actually a huge part of the problem. The bowls themselves undercut the schools when it comes to ticket sales, and then force the schools to absorb the costs.



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    Re: Maybe its good we didn't go to a bowl...

    Quote Originally Posted by EggMcClone View Post
    To me the main point is that the bowl system is completely broken financially. When 25 percent of the total expenses listed on these reports went to subsidize unused tickets something is wrong. What a ripoff!
    The bowls and the conferences need to get rid of the current tie-in system where almost all of the bowls are contractually obligated to two conferences. The bowls would get better attendence in most cases if they had the flexibility to invite at least one at-large team from any conference of their choosing.

    The Fiesta Bowl was stuck with UConn and that was real bad for both the Bowl and UConn.



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    Re: Maybe its good we didn't go to a bowl...

    Quote Originally Posted by EggMcClone View Post
    To me the main point is that the bowl system is completely broken financially. When 25 percent of the total expenses listed on these reports went to subsidize unused tickets something is wrong. What a ripoff!

    Of course at the end of the article they say that only 14 D1-A athletic departments actually operate in the black so you could make a pretty good argument that college sports in general is broken.
    This was my point. I don't really think it was a good thing we didn't go to a bowl game...my point was to show that unless you go to a top tier bowl, you are going to lose money and rely on the conference to subsidize your trip. And even some top tier games will cause teams to lose money.

    Quote Originally Posted by tm3308 View Post
    This wrapped up pretty much everything I was about to say. The UCONN/OU/Iowa example is hardly the typical situation. Those things happen every year, but we're talking about 2 bowls out of like 34. Not exactly a majority there.

    For ISU, a bowl game will almost always be a good thing. Though it would be great to see Rhoads get the program to where an Insight Bowl IS a bit of a disappointment.
    Read the article. The UNCONN/OU/Iowa example is the typical situation. They may be on the extreme end of it but year after year teams lose big bucks because they can't sell their ticket allotment.



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