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  1. #16
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    Re: Awesome read on Selby/1 and done

    Quote Originally Posted by CyJack13 View Post
    High school kids can go right into the NBDL now. They don't have to go to college, and I disagree that hardly anyone gets promoted.

    At the end of this year 23% of NBA players had spent time in the D-League, so if you're talented enough the NBA finds you, especially if you're 19 or 20. While a lot of teams don't want to waste time on guys in their late 20's, I don't think they would hesitate to take a chance on a talented young prospect.
    Thanks for the stats, I didn't know the rate was as high as it was. Do you think there is a solution to get more guys to play in the NBDL, or is this slowly happening? Admittedly, I don't follow the NBDL that much, so I am not aware of what kind of progress is happening recently.



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    Re: Awesome read on Selby/1 and done

    Quote Originally Posted by LindenCy View Post
    Thanks for the stats, I didn't know the rate was as high as it was. Do you think there is a solution to get more guys to play in the NBDL, or is this slowly happening? Admittedly, I don't follow the NBDL that much, so I am not aware of what kind of progress is happening recently.
    Honestly, I think the league doesn't really know where they are going long term with the NBDL. I think they are leaving it more up to the individual NBA teams. Some D-League teams have three NBA teams tied to them, others are owned by individual NBA teams. I think the better front offices take advantage of the D-League more than most. The Spurs, Rockets, Mavs, and Thunder all have their own D-League teams and have control over who they sign to play. We'll probably see more teams going this route in the future, but I think the league will be reluctant to ever push for high school players to skip college and go straight to the NBDL.



  3. #18
    Chile Mac is Back!
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    Re: Awesome read on Selby/1 and done

    Quote Originally Posted by CyJack13 View Post
    Honestly, I think the league doesn't really know where they are going long term with the NBDL. I think they are leaving it more up to the individual NBA teams. Some D-League teams have three NBA teams tied to them, others are owned by individual NBA teams. I think the better front offices take advantage of the D-League more than most. The Spurs, Rockets, Mavs, and Thunder all have their own D-League teams and have control over who they sign to play. We'll probably see more teams going this route in the future, but I think the league will be reluctant to ever push for high school players to skip college and go straight to the NBDL.
    Cool, thanks for the thoughts.



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    Re: Awesome read on Selby/1 and done

    My beef with the age rule is that it forces some athletes to go through the charade of being a college student, when most of them don't want to. Sure there are some exceptions to the rule, kids that actually want to get their degree before they go pro (see Jared Sullinger), but for the most part, everyone knows who is going one and done before the season even starts.

    So, instead of enhancing college basketball programs with more athletes, they cheapen them, making them all about providing the most conducive atmosphere for turning pro. An already insecure system becomes that much more insecure. Recruiting must now be a 24-7 job because you never know who is going to be around year after year. More often than not, coaches spend more time than they should babysitting when they should they should be coaching. Why force a kid that doesn't want to be a student to sit through classes they get nothing out of, take tests they don't care about, and wear a jersey with a name on the front that says nothing more to them than "'Stepping Stone University."

    I don't get whats wrong with the best players playing at the best level. Thats like saying that if there is a 12 year old genius, we're going to make him sit through seventh grade geometry instead of letting him take high school calculus.


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  5. #20
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    Re: Awesome read on Selby/1 and done

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAdmiral View Post
    My beef with the age rule is that it forces some athletes to go through the charade of being a college student, when most of them don't want to. Sure there are some exceptions to the rule, kids that actually want to get their degree before they go pro (see Jared Sullinger), but for the most part, everyone knows who is going one and done before the season even starts.

    So, instead of enhancing college basketball programs with more athletes, they cheapen them, making them all about providing the most conducive atmosphere for turning pro. An already insecure system becomes that much more insecure. Recruiting must now be a 24-7 job because you never know who is going to be around year after year. More often than not, coaches spend more time than they should babysitting when they should they should be coaching. Why force a kid that doesn't want to be a student to sit through classes they get nothing out of, take tests they don't care about, and wear a jersey with a name on the front that says nothing more to them than "'Stepping Stone University."

    I don't get whats wrong with the best players playing at the best level. Thats like saying that if there is a 12 year old genius, we're going to make him sit through seventh grade geometry instead of letting him take high school calculus.
    Again, it doesn't force them to go to college. High school kids can go right into the NBDL and play right away. They can also go overseas and make a lot more to play. A lot of these kids are up front about being one and dones, they don't surprise their coaches after the season, the coaches know what to expect when they recruit them.



  6. #21
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    Re: Awesome read on Selby/1 and done

    He took a risk by going to a program where he was replaceable.



  7. #22
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    Re: Awesome read on Selby/1 and done

    Quote Originally Posted by CyJack13 View Post
    Again, it doesn't force them to go to college. High school kids can go right into the NBDL and play right away. They can also go overseas and make a lot more to play. A lot of these kids are up front about being one and dones, they don't surprise their coaches after the season, the coaches know what to expect when they recruit them.
    Right, no one holds a gun up to there head and says "you have to go to college", but its the path of least resistance to the NBA. Its like when you're parents used to tell you when you were a kid, "You don't have to take out the trash, you can just move out if you don't want to follow our rules." Sure, they aren't forcing you to take out the trash, but what other choice does a 12 year old have.


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  8. #23
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    Re: Awesome read on Selby/1 and done

    Quote Originally Posted by CyJack13 View Post
    Again, it doesn't force them to go to college. High school kids can go right into the NBDL and play right away. They can also go overseas and make a lot more to play. A lot of these kids are up front about being one and dones, they don't surprise their coaches after the season, the coaches know what to expect when they recruit them.
    So is there an uptick in phenoms joining the D? I recognize that kids can go straight to the D but this doesn't make the rule less silly.

    If you can get drafted you should be able to sign and play at age 18, 17 with a parent's permission. I think this should be true for football as well. Remember, these kids are an investment. Pro teams aren't going to invest in people that they think will fail.


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  9. #24
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    Re: Awesome read on Selby/1 and done

    Quote Originally Posted by weR138 View Post
    So is there an uptick in phenoms joining the D? I recognize that kids can go straight to the D but this doesn't make the rule less silly.

    If you can get drafted you should be able to sign and play at age 18, 17 with a parent's permission. I think this should be true for football as well. Remember, these kids are an investment. Pro teams aren't going to invest in people that they think will fail.
    Exactly, and by making them go to college for a year the NBA is protecting its product. NBA teams weren't drafting high school kids they thought would fail, but a lot of them were failing, especially big men coming right out of high school. If Robert Swift, Korlene Young, Kwame Brown go to college for a year they would have got exposed and NBA teams would not have drafted them nearly as high.

    And no, high school phenoms aren't going to go to the D-League over college because taking buses to Des Moines and Fort Wayne and Albequerque sure doesn't beat living in Chapel Hill or Lexington for a year, being on ESPN all the time, and getting your ego stroked by 18 year old groupies at every house party you go to. But if they did go the D-League they would still get drafted just as high, and probably be better prepared for the NBA.


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  10. #25
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    Re: Awesome read on Selby/1 and done

    Quote Originally Posted by CyJack13 View Post
    Again, it doesn't force them to go to college. High school kids can go right into the NBDL and play right away. They can also go overseas and make a lot more to play. A lot of these kids are up front about being one and dones, they don't surprise their coaches after the season, the coaches know what to expect when they recruit them.
    The main reason why elite HS talent will elect to play one season of college ball instead of the NBDL is to preserve their NBA draft stock. Kids straight out of HS will get exposed against older, more mature players in the NBDL or overseas and risk having their draft stock impaired. This happened to Brandon Jennings of the Bucks who elected to go overseas instead of playing college ball. He did not play much overseas against better, older players and it hurt his draft stock.

    A hybrid version of the MLB system needs to be implemented for the NBA where a HS kid can choose one year of NBDL, two years of JUCO, or 3 years of NCAA ball prior to becoming NBA Draft eligible. This system would help the college game immensely by providing much more roster stability on a year to year basis for high major programs. This system would also help the NBA because it would still keep them out of HS gyms scouting players (which Stern wants to keep), elite talent out of HS would be trained at the D-League level where it's hoops 24 by 7 and they would be more ready for the NBA, and the NBA would only be scouting college juniors and seniors and those players would be much more NBA ready.

    There are a limited roster spots in the NBDL for elite HS talent so there will not be a high number of HS players being talented enough to play in the NBDL right out of HS.



  11. #26
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    Re: Awesome read on Selby/1 and done

    Quote Originally Posted by cykadelic2 View Post
    The main reason why elite HS talent will elect to play one season of college ball instead of the NBDL is to preserve their NBA draft stock. Kids straight out of HS will get exposed against older, more mature players in the NBDL or overseas and risk having their draft stock impaired. This happened to Brandon Jennings of the Bucks who elected to go overseas instead of playing college ball. He did not play much overseas against better, older players and it hurt his draft stock.

    A hybrid version of the MLB system needs to be implemented for the NBA where a HS kid can choose one year of NBDL, two years of JUCO, or 3 years of NCAA ball prior to becoming NBA Draft eligible. This system would help the college game immensely by providing much more roster stability on a year to year basis for high major programs. This system would also help the NBA because it would still keep them out of HS gyms scouting players (which Stern wants to keep), elite talent out of HS would be trained at the D-League level where it's hoops 24 by 7 and they would be more ready for the NBA, and the NBA would only be scouting college juniors and seniors and those players would be much more NBA ready.

    There are a limited roster spots in the NBDL for elite HS talent so there will not be a high number of HS players being talented enough to play in the NBDL right out of HS.
    I would disagree that it hurt Jennings' draft stock as there were a lot of questions about his outside shot and careless ball handling coming out of high school. He probably been a late lottery pick either way, but there's no arguing that his time in Europe made him a better player. In the NBA your big money contract is not your rookie deal, like it is in the NFL, it's your second contract. So worrying about a couple spots in the draft isn't worth it.

    I would love to see all kids stay four years in college, we'll never get back to that though. I think the NBA will go to a two year rule this summer, but they're always going to want to see high school kids go to college and become famous before they come into the league. The NCAA is just free marketing for the NBA.



  12. #27
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    Re: Awesome read on Selby/1 and done

    Quote Originally Posted by CyJack13 View Post
    High school kids can go right into the NBDL now. They don't have to go to college, and I disagree that hardly anyone gets promoted.

    At the end of this year 23% of NBA players had spent time in the D-League, so if you're talented enough the NBA finds you, especially if you're 19 or 20. While a lot of teams don't want to waste time on guys in their late 20's, I don't think they would hesitate to take a chance on a talented young prospect.
    I would highly doubt this is true - would love to see a source.

    Even so, they turn into nothing but a role player. Name 5-10 NBA players that spent legitimate time (not a 2-3 week send down) that became a legitimate NBA player (25-35 minutes/game).



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    Re: Awesome read on Selby/1 and done

    Quote Originally Posted by CyJack13 View Post
    I would love to see all kids stay four years in college, we'll never get back to that though. I think the NBA will go to a two year rule this summer, but they're always going to want to see high school kids go to college and become famous before they come into the league. The NCAA is just free marketing for the NBA.
    While I agree that the NCAA is free marketing for the NBA, the NBA and the NCAA would both be much better served with kids like Derrick Rose, OJ Mayo and Josh Selby playing in the D-League for a year or two as opposed to forcing him to go to college. Rose and Mayo both had no business being in college and the cheating it took to get them in college wasn't worth it for Memphis and USC. Both would have been even better prepared for the NBA by playing a year in the D-League instead of college while collecting both a D-League and agent money. Win for the NBA, Win for the NCAA and a Win for the D-League who now get the services of "name" HS players who can be marketed at that level instead of the NCAA where kids like Rose and Mayo shouldn't be at in the first place.



  14. #29
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    Re: Awesome read on Selby/1 and done

    Quote Originally Posted by cycfan1 View Post
    I would highly doubt this is true - would love to see a source.

    Even so, they turn into nothing but a role player. Name 5-10 NBA players that spent legitimate time (not a 2-3 week send down) that became a legitimate NBA player (25-35 minutes/game).
    The 23% is from wikipedia so it could be wrong, but here's a list of the 63 guys who spent time in the NBDL who were on opening day rosters at the start of the season. And that number is going to be higher at the end of the year with all the call ups due to injuries at the end of the season.

    NBA Development League: NBA D-Leaguers On NBA Opening Night Rosters

    Well there's a reason they had to go to the NBDL in the first place, obviously if they were good enough to be a starter right away they wouldn't have to go their. So of course most NBDL vets are role players in the NBA.

    Aaron Brooks, Brandon Bass, Jose Juan Barea, Matt Barnes, Birdman, Chuck Hayes, Louis Williams all have played in the NBDL. So there's plenty of guys in playoff team rotations who have spent time there.



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    Re: Awesome read on Selby/1 and done

    I still think the NCAA actually holds more cards on this issue, they just refuse to play them. If they implemented some sort of standard athletic scholarship agreement verbage that made athletes incur penalties (must refund scholarship, etc.) if they don't complete 3 years, it would start moving guys that know they are one and done to the NBDL or Europe. It wouldn't come close to completely solving the issue, but it would start kick starting the NBA to make changes to that system.



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