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    IS Big 12 WBB down this year?

    I guess I am not buying the hype that the Big 12 is "down" this year. Perhaps not as high as last year, but consider this.

    7 teams in the Big 12 are in the top 50 RPI.

    CollegeRPI.com - Women

    Big 12 RPI, is #1

    CollegeRPI.com - Women

    So, I'm not buying it Creme, that the Big 12 only deserves 5 teams in the dance this year.

    Who deserves not to go, ISU? KSU? TTech?

    I find it funny that all of these teams (that is 9 of the 12) below have had votes in the rankings at some point this year.

    Baylor
    AM
    OU
    ISU
    KSU
    TTech
    OSU
    NU
    KU

    Also, last place Nebraska beat Texas Tech, who just beat Baylor.

    I will say the Big 12's non-con was weak this year though, due to many factors. Typical good teams scheduled being down, and no signature wins for the Big 12 elite except Baylor over TN. A&M's last minute loss to Duke hurt too.


    Last edited by twistedredbird; 02-20-2011 at 08:41 AM.

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    Re: IS Big 12 WBB down this year?

    I think they get 6 in as of right now with BU,OU,AM,ISU,KSU and TT



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    Re: IS Big 12 WBB down this year?

    I think Creme is spot on with 5 as of right now - but I would drop Texas out and put TTech in. I look forward to his bracketology tomorrow. Both Texas and K-State are iffy, depending on how the next two weeks go. Texas mailed it in yesterday in Norman; no way, as of right now, do they deserve to be in the NCAA's.
    The Big East is by far the best women's bball conference, especially with DePaul coming on so strong. It's telling that West Virginia, a team that mauled us in the Paradise Jam, is 7-6 in the Big East. ACC is #2, Big 12 #3.



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    Re: IS Big 12 WBB down this year?

    Sisters will probably make the tournament, but admittedly there aren't a lot of quality wins this season.

    Kansas State is about the best win.

    Have to beat Texas this week, and it'd probably be good to win 2 of the other 3.



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    Re: IS Big 12 WBB down this year?

    twist,
    I think we are seeing what Bill feared a few years ago and it's effect on WBB. The officials (I guess that is the term for them still) have allowed the game to echo the men's game to the point that there is so much more physical play that takes away some of the finesse and skills that go with better coaching. The degree of holding, banging, shoving now compared to just 3 yrs ago is vast and it is giving bigger physical teams the opp to compete and be better now. IMO.
    Geno and UConn started it years ago with his brand of abuse ball but he also had great skill players. Stanford became a physical team. Summit mostly dominated with advanced skill players and sets.
    Now the next wave of A%M's, WEst Va, and others have made it a majority.
    The 12 has KU, CU, OSU to go along with Baylor and the Aggies in they try to manhandle teams to gain advantage.

    This will cripple the ladies game IMO and take away form the more skill set game that allows coaches to overcome the lack of talent they might have against teams that can hoarde it.


    Making a difference everyday!

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    Re: IS Big 12 WBB down this year?

    K-State is iffy because of the SOS, currently # 80 from CollegeRPI.com. We will see how well they do on Wednesday when they go to Baylor. The consensus about K-State is they have beat the teams in the B12 they are supposed to, but have no signature wins. Their best win to date was the first weekend of the season against St. John's in Manhattan. After Baylor, the host us, host TAMU, and travel to KU the last game of the year.

    Our quality wins (over top 50 RPI) teams include:
    -Michigan (#30)
    -Virginia (#45)
    -K-State (#50)

    A couple other wins could help us with wins over top 50 RPI. Northern Iowa sits at 52, they were 47, but just played the two worst teams in the MVC, this is also a quality road win. TCU is another win that could help us, they are currently 61, but have made a strong move late and sit in 2nd place in the MWC. We have one bad loss - Colorado.



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    Re: IS Big 12 WBB down this year?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tornado man View Post
    I think Creme is spot on with 5 as of right now - but I would drop Texas out and put TTech in. I look forward to his bracketology tomorrow. Both Texas and K-State are iffy, depending on how the next two weeks go. Texas mailed it in yesterday in Norman; no way, as of right now, do they deserve to be in the NCAA's.
    The Big East is by far the best women's bball conference, especially with DePaul coming on so strong. It's telling that West Virginia, a team that mauled us in the Paradise Jam, is 7-6 in the Big East. ACC is #2, Big 12 #3.
    I'd agree with your argument that the Big East is #1. if you drop out the bottom 5 teams on the conference. I'd gladly take us playing those 5 teams over playing the Big 12 North any day.

    ACC, #2, I'd guess, I'd say flip a coin between the Big 12 and the ACC, though, I think both Baylor and A&M take Duke on a neutral court, and again, there are like 4 teams there you get a night off.

    Yes, WV is perplexing. Mauled, an appropriate term. I thought they would be stronger this year. Though, they should have won that game against UConn, and flubbed it up toward the end.



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    Re: IS Big 12 WBB down this year?

    Quote Originally Posted by ARSON View Post
    twist,
    I think we are seeing what Bill feared a few years ago and it's effect on WBB. The officials (I guess that is the term for them still) have allowed the game to echo the men's game to the point that there is so much more physical play that takes away some of the finesse and skills that go with better coaching. The degree of holding, banging, shoving now compared to just 3 yrs ago is vast and it is giving bigger physical teams the opp to compete and be better now. IMO.
    Geno and UConn started it years ago with his brand of abuse ball but he also had great skill players. Stanford became a physical team. Summit mostly dominated with advanced skill players and sets.
    Now the next wave of A%M's, WEst Va, and others have made it a majority.
    The 12 has KU, CU, OSU to go along with Baylor and the Aggies in they try to manhandle teams to gain advantage.

    This will cripple the ladies game IMO and take away form the more skill set game that allows coaches to overcome the lack of talent they might have against teams that can hoarde it.
    Well said. I have watched a couple games this year that I thought were more elbows than talent. The TN/Vandy game was a thug fest by TN in the second half. And the WV/Louisville game just plain ugly banging, holding, and mauling.

    I used to enjoy the WBB for the skill, the sets, the motion, but the thug ball is becoming more and more evident.

    I have always thought Geno was a master of physical thug play that was "acceptable." I have always been amazed at how physical his teams are without getting fouls.



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    Re: IS Big 12 WBB down this year?

    I must be the only one on here who enjoys where women's bball is now. It's more popular than ever. Are some of you sure that you're not confusing "thug ball" with "intensity?" That's how I see it. Keep in mind that our own Chelsea Poppens could be termed a "thug" as she pushes and shoves with the best of 'em. And I love it.
    Yes, ISU fans can wish all teams play BF's style, with no full-court pressing, no double-teams and rarely going for steals. But I like more aggressive play - I guess it came from watching Pat Summitt and her Tennessee Vols the last 25 years.



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    Re: IS Big 12 WBB down this year?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tornado man View Post
    I must be the only one on here who enjoys where women's bball is now. It's more popular than ever. Are some of you sure that you're not confusing "thug ball" with "intensity?" That's how I see it. Keep in mind that our own Chelsea Poppens could be termed a "thug" as she pushes and shoves with the best of 'em. And I love it.
    Yes, ISU fans can wish all teams play BF's style, with no full-court pressing, no double-teams and rarely going for steals. But I like more aggressive play - I guess it came from watching Pat Summitt and her Tennessee Vols the last 25 years.
    I'm not saying not to play physical, and I have wished and lamented on this board for a long time I wish ISU would get more athletic players that could be more aggressive in defensive play, and one of the reasons I am so excited about next year's class. I also think sometimes by not playing aggressive on defense it hurts our offense.

    But there have been some ugly ugly games this year that were more wrestling matches than basketball. Did you watch either of the games I mentioned? Neither was fun to watch, and as a long-standing Summit and TN fan, I was not impressed by the NFL player style strutting, and elbow throwing that her team exhibited. Neither was Pat Summit when she grabbed Glory Johnson by the arm and had a few choice words for her.

    Nor do I think WBB benefits from being ladylike. But a certain amount of class should exist.

    How many times has Bolte been held by her jersey that it has gone uncalled? Should that be allowed? Are those players being told to do and just not get caught, or are they doing it on their own?

    Do you think all those screens ISU sets isn't being tough? Getting ran into over and over again isn't fun.

    I want to see toughness going for a rebound or a steal. Not sneaking illegal plays.



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    Re: IS Big 12 WBB down this year?

    Quote Originally Posted by twistedredbird View Post

    But there have been some ugly ugly games this year that were more wrestling matches than basketball. Did you watch either of the games I mentioned? Neither was fun to watch, and as a long-standing Summit and TN fan, I was not impressed by the NFL player style strutting, and elbow throwing that her team exhibited. Neither was Pat Summit when she grabbed Glory Johnson by the arm and had a few choice words for her.
    I did not see either of those, but I can imagine at the WV-Louisville game was ugly.
    The Big 12 has two teams, IMO, that want to intimidate or throw opponents off their game by jostling and body-checking: A&M and TTech.
    I'll grant that style sure isn't entertaining, and one of the reasons (the main one) why ISU attendance is so high: BF's style is appealing to the fans. TTech should have thought of that prior to hiring Kristy Curry. Under Marsha Sharp, the Lady Raiders were perhaps the most entertaining women's team in the country, with her running offense and their overall style. Their attendance was the highest in the Big 12. They won't get it back under Curry-ball.


    Last edited by Tornado man; 02-20-2011 at 05:42 PM.

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    Re: IS Big 12 WBB down this year?

    BG leads the nation in dunks though right?



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    Re: IS Big 12 WBB down this year?

    I want to see toughness going for a rebound or a steal.

    Amen to that. I think the best thing that could happen would be for the officials to be consistent throughout the game -- every game. Over time, the consistency would be evident. For now, it's a joke.



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    Re: IS Big 12 WBB down this year?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ms3r4ISU View Post
    I want to see toughness going for a rebound or a steal.

    Amen to that. I think the best thing that could happen would be for the officials to be consistent throughout the game -- every game. Over time, the consistency would be evident. For now, it's a joke.

    I would agree with you totally. I have been to every home game & we were in the Virgin Islands for those games & have watched as many away games on TV as I can. The officiating this year has been any thing but consistent. One time a touch is a foul and the next you can grab and hold and nothing is callled. There is way to much hand checking going on and when you see someone run down the court on defense bang into the ballhandler and then throw rheir arms in the air you know they have fouled the person.



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    Re: IS Big 12 WBB down this year?

    I expect to see the centers and forwards mix it up a little but I don't like it when the other team's guards are disrupting our offense by constantly bumping and clawing at our players. I agree the officials are to blame. If they call the fouls then this sort of play won't work long term if free throws are made.



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