Question for ISU wrestling fanatics
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  1. #1
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    Question for ISU wrestling fanatics

    What is the general consensus about our wrestling program right now? Are we on the right track? We've obviously taken a couple of steps back after
    Cael left and with the subsequent personnel changes... which is understandable. Aside from that, are we making progress and is there excitement about the current coaching staff, roster, recruits, etc?



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    Re: Question for ISU wrestling fanatics

    i think to the casual fan, we are going in the wrong direction. i don't have many contacts left that know anything from inside the program, so i can't tell you what the vibe is like from within. i do think that this was a rebuilding year whether or not kj was the coach or cael. we lost so many leaders off last years team, that this was gonna be a tough year regardless-big z, varner, gallick, mueller, fanthorpe, and if cael was still here add cyler on top of that. burke was a 2 year starter that's gone too. that would have been 7 of 10 starters for cael and 6 for kj(7 counting long). maybe cael woulda had a fuller cupboard, but with any coaching change you will lose some players so who knows.

    i think that last years class was solid-not top to bottom world beaters, but some very good kids along with some kids that will take some development. i think it is way to early to judge the staff on wins and losses. i do think that our style has gotten more aggressive under kj, but i would like to see them pushing even more. i don't think our conditioning is where it should be, although that seems to have been a long standing problem for isu(in my eyes at least).

    bottom line, i don't think i can give you a straight answer until maybe a year from now, unless something wild happens at nationals. some people might read that as a bad thing that our program might be lacking an identity or a path, and that may be justified. i just hope that we don't lose what's left of the fanbase. we have long thought of ourselves as an elite program, but we haven't won a national championship since the late 80's. that includes douglass, cael, and now kj's coaching stints.



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    Re: Question for ISU wrestling fanatics

    Quote Originally Posted by ISU BET View Post
    i think to the casual fan, we are going in the wrong direction. i don't have many contacts left that know anything from inside the program, so i can't tell you what the vibe is like from within. i do think that this was a rebuilding year whether or not kj was the coach or cael. we lost so many leaders off last years team, that this was gonna be a tough year regardless-big z, varner, gallick, mueller, fanthorpe, and if cael was still here add cyler on top of that. burke was a 2 year starter that's gone too. that would have been 7 of 10 starters for cael and 6 for kj(7 counting long). maybe cael woulda had a fuller cupboard, but with any coaching change you will lose some players so who knows.

    i think that last years class was solid-not top to bottom world beaters, but some very good kids along with some kids that will take some development. i think it is way to early to judge the staff on wins and losses. i do think that our style has gotten more aggressive under kj, but i would like to see them pushing even more. i don't think our conditioning is where it should be, although that seems to have been a long standing problem for isu(in my eyes at least).

    bottom line, i don't think i can give you a straight answer until maybe a year from now, unless something wild happens at nationals. some people might read that as a bad thing that our program might be lacking an identity or a path, and that may be justified. i just hope that we don't lose what's left of the fanbase. we have long thought of ourselves as an elite program, but we haven't won a national championship since the late 80's. that includes douglass, cael, and now kj's coaching stints.

    KJ is a fine man I'm sure and probably a great coach . . but ISU CANNOT afford to be in REBUILD mode for any extended period of time. Great programs RELOAD (to wit: hauks) . . . ISU is struggling to be relevent unlike any time in the past. The Big 10 is a top notch ratslin conference while the Big XII . . well, you figure it out.



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    Re: Question for ISU wrestling fanatics

    Quote Originally Posted by ISU BET View Post
    i just hope that we don't lose what's left of the fanbase. we have long thought of ourselves as an elite program, but we haven't won a national championship since the late 80's. that includes douglass, cael, and now kj's coaching stints.
    How do you think KJ stacks up against Cael in terms of recruiting and coaching? Again, I know it's too early to say anthing too definitive. Can KJ have more success than Cael did? I'm not rehashing the Cael thing, but I'm wondering what the expectation is for the new regime.



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    Re: Question for ISU wrestling fanatics

    Quote Originally Posted by Madclone1 View Post
    KJ is a fine man I'm sure and probably a great coach . . but ISU CANNOT afford to be in REBUILD mode for any extended period of time. Great programs RELOAD (to wit: hauks) . . . ISU is struggling to be relevent unlike any time in the past. The Big 10 is a top notch ratslin conference while the Big XII . . well, you figure it out.
    The best recruiting class in school history graduated last season. Our head coach and all of his blue-chip recruits left two seasons ago. It was impossible to not have a rebuilding year. To say otherwise is short-sighted and moronic.


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    Re: Question for ISU wrestling fanatics

    So far, I give the coaching advantage to KJ while the recruiting goes to Cael. It will be hard to ever out-recruit Cael. Every wrestler in the nation knows who he is.


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    Re: Question for ISU wrestling fanatics

    Quote Originally Posted by jahfg View Post
    The best recruiting class in school history graduated last season. Our head coach and all of his blue-chip recruits left two seasons ago. It was impossible to not have a rebuilding year. To say otherwise is short-sighted and moronic.
    In the meantime . . Iowa is in the same boat with graduations and is well on its way to moving into the National spotlight again . . they are mentally tough, not prone to injuries, and ready to compete. ISU by contrast is going the opposite direction. This "ramping up" mentality demonstrates weakness . . moronic or not. We will see who is correct a few years from now.



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    Re: Question for ISU wrestling fanatics

    Quote Originally Posted by Madclone1 View Post
    In the meantime . . Iowa is in the same boat with graduations and is well on its way to moving into the National spotlight again . . they are mentally tough, not prone to injuries, and ready to compete. ISU by contrast is going the opposite direction. This "ramping up" mentality demonstrates weakness . . moronic or not. We will see who is correct a few years from now.

    They didn't lose their coach and their entire recruiting class.

    Correct about what?


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    Re: Question for ISU wrestling fanatics

    I agree with jahfg. I think Kevin is really pushing the wrestlers and identifies their weak points. It's hard to be competitve when we lose David Taylor and a couple other guys. I like what I see in Ryak, Gadson, Moreno, Cozart. These guys really have good work ethic and i know they will be studs. Still waiting to see more from Spangler ang Gibson. In my opinion these guys could be AA's if they really work hard. Spangler unfortunately is at Sorenson's weight and he's wrestling really tough right now.



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    Re: Question for ISU wrestling fanatics

    Quote Originally Posted by Madclone1 View Post
    In the meantime . . Iowa is in the same boat with graduations and is well on its way to moving into the National spotlight again . . they are mentally tough, not prone to injuries, and ready to compete. ISU by contrast is going the opposite direction. This "ramping up" mentality demonstrates weakness . . moronic or not. We will see who is correct a few years from now.
    A better comparison would be Iowa in Brands' first two years; they were in a similar "rebuilding" situation. Granted, just because of Iowa's recent history and cache (and the fact Brands ganked some of his recruits from VT instead of having to build from scratch), their "rebuilding" happened a lot quicker than almost any other school out there.

    I'm still positive about the direction of the wrestling program, but can't make any definitive statements either way until at least the end of this year.



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    Re: Question for ISU wrestling fanatics

    if beard, long, and thompson were here now, how different would this team be?



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    Re: Question for ISU wrestling fanatics

    Quote Originally Posted by MoreCowbell View Post
    A better comparison would be Iowa in Brands' first two years; they were in a similar "rebuilding" situation. Granted, just because of Iowa's recent history and cache (and the fact Brands ganked some of his recruits from VT instead of having to build from scratch), their "rebuilding" happened a lot quicker than almost any other school out there.

    I'm still positive about the direction of the wrestling program, but can't make any definitive statements either way until at least the end of this year.

    Good points . . really.

    It really irks me how Iowa always manages to do things on "the edges" without their lemmings and lemming press asking a few questions. Saint Kirk . . nuff said . . . Brands stole WVs program . . . as good ole Cael has done to ISU.

    I believe KJ is an upright, good man and coach . . but he is being left behind in the dust because $$$$$$$$$ talks and the wrestling culture has done a paradigm shift to BIG MONEY programs. Cael could see the handwriting on the wall. He bailed for PSU and took our wrestlers with him . . . Iowa reloads with its maniac coach and $$$$$ support.



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    Re: Question for ISU wrestling fanatics

    Quote Originally Posted by Madclone1 View Post
    The Big 10 is a top notch ratslin conference while the Big XII . . well, you figure it out.
    What are you talking about. Every single Big XII wrestling school is ranked in the top 25 and the highest ranked Big XII school (Oklahoma State) is ranked higher than the highest ranked Big 10 school (Iowa).

    We're down this year because we have four holes in our line-up due to Long getting the boot and some other guys leaving when Cael left. Take away those losses and defections and we would be reloading rather than rebuilding. Plus if Weatherman gets his act together and wrestles in tournaments like he apparently does in the room we'd have a huge boost even this year.

    I'm not content to only be a top 20 school, but I have no doubt that Jackson will get us back to the top within a few years. Other than Weatherman everyone on the team is performing at or above their potential this year.

    Quote Originally Posted by HuddleUp View Post
    How do you think KJ stacks up against Cael in terms of recruiting and coaching? Again, I know it's too early to say anthing too definitive. Can KJ have more success than Cael did? I'm not rehashing the Cael thing, but I'm wondering what the expectation is for the new regime.
    I believe that Jackson is a vastly superior coach to Cael. But nobody in the country can outrecruit Cael for the next 10 years or so. They both are Olympic gold medalists, but Cael did it much more recently so is fresh in the mind of any wrestler currently growing up.


    On another note, I just looked at Jackson's wikipedia page and he apparently won the middleweight title at UFC 14. I wonder how much he brings that up with recruits. I have to think that guys coming up today would consider that a big plus.


    Last edited by Judoka; 12-23-2010 at 04:06 PM.

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    Re: Question for ISU wrestling fanatics

    Quote Originally Posted by ISU BET View Post
    if beard, long, and thompson were here now, how different would this team be?
    Top 10. Thompson never turned into what we thought he would be, so I'm not sure we're very far behind where we'd be with him at hwt, but Long would be ranked 2nd and Beard likely top 8. Huge losses.



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    Re: Question for ISU wrestling fanatics

    Quote Originally Posted by Madclone1 View Post
    Good points . . really.

    It really irks me how Iowa always manages to do things on "the edges" without their lemmings and lemming press asking a few questions. Saint Kirk . . nuff said . . . Brands stole WVs program . . . as good ole Cael has done to ISU.

    I believe KJ is an upright, good man and coach . . but he is being left behind in the dust because $$$$$$$$$ talks and the wrestling culture has done a paradigm shift to BIG MONEY programs. Cael could see the handwriting on the wall. He bailed for PSU and took our wrestlers with him . . . Iowa reloads with its maniac coach and $$$$$ support.

    You really don't know what you are talking about. At all.


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