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    Re: Remember Pearl Harbor

    Has anyone gone to the memorial?



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    Re: Remember Pearl Harbor

    Was there about 6 years ago. Very somber stepping off the transport boat onto the memorial.

    Seeing the oil still leaking from the ship is amazing this many years later.



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    Re: Remember Pearl Harbor

    I was at K-Bay Marine Corps base out there and went to Pearl every once in a while. Almost got kicked off base for starting a fight with a Japanese guy. We were watching the film about pearl harbour during the tour type thing they do. THe Japanese guy said something to his buddy. His buddy started laughing. It set me off and my Marine Corps buddy as well. Not good times.
    My grandpa was in the Navy during WW2. Those guys were tough.


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    Re: Remember Pearl Harbor

    Quote Originally Posted by Knownothing View Post
    I was at K-Bay Marine Corps base out there and went to Pearl every once in a while. Almost got kicked off base for starting a fight with a Japanese guy. We were watching the film about pearl harbour during the tour type thing they do. THe Japanese guy said something to his buddy. His buddy started laughing. It set me off and my Marine Corps buddy as well. Not good times.
    My grandpa was in the Navy during WW2. Those guys were tough.

    I've been told that at one time they used to seperate people on the tours because of sensitivity issues. Is there any truth to that?



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    Re: Remember Pearl Harbor

    Quote Originally Posted by Knownothing View Post
    I was at K-Bay Marine Corps base out there and went to Pearl every once in a while. Almost got kicked off base for starting a fight with a Japanese guy. We were watching the film about pearl harbour during the tour type thing they do. THe Japanese guy said something to his buddy. His buddy started laughing. It set me off and my Marine Corps buddy as well. Not good times.
    My grandpa was in the Navy during WW2. Those guys were tough.

    was it the Michael Bay movie? I would be laughing my *** off as well.


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    Re: Remember Pearl Harbor

    No it was a documentary. Not the crappy Pearl Harbour movie.


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    Re: Remember Pearl Harbor

    Quote Originally Posted by cyrevkah View Post
    Has anyone gone to the memorial?
    Went there 13 years ago. As someone else mentioned, it is a very somber place. You can feel what happened there. You can see in your mind the Japanese planes coming over the mountains.

    I was also struck by how small the harbor is. To hold such a giant place in history and yet to be so small and innocent looking. To see oil still bubbling up from the Arizona after all these years. To think of so many still entombed beneath. It was a very moving experience.



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    Re: Remember Pearl Harbor

    I was there 5.5 years ago. I'd say the only place I've visited that was more somber than that was Auschwitz.

    The ironic part of this is just how much of a tactical failure bombing Pearl Harbor was for the Japanese. They figured, "hey, we destroy their battleships, we cripple their Pacific Fleet." In the end it wasn't even our battleships that won the Pacific - it was our aircraft carriers, which were nowhere near Pearl Harbor for the bombing (let the conspiracy theories begin). On top of that, not only did the Japanese not hit the fuel stores and depot shops - you know, the things that actually would have crippled the Pacific fleet - they didn't even target them. Further, the Japanese just gave FDR what he wanted most - the excuse (via Germany and Italy sticking up for Japan) and public support for entrance into the European Theatre (once again, more conspiracy theories).


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    Re: Remember Pearl Harbor

    Quote Originally Posted by jdoggivjc View Post
    I was there 5.5 years ago. I'd say the only place I've visited that was more somber than that was Auschwitz.

    The ironic part of this is just how much of a tactical failure bombing Pearl Harbor was for the Japanese. They figured, "hey, we destroy their battleships, we cripple their Pacific Fleet." In the end it wasn't even our battleships that won the Pacific - it was our aircraft carriers, which were nowhere near Pearl Harbor for the bombing (let the conspiracy theories begin). On top of that, not only did the Japanese not hit the fuel stores and depot shops - you know, the things that actually would have crippled the Pacific fleet - they didn't even target them. Further, the Japanese just gave FDR what he wanted most - the excuse (via Germany and Italy sticking up for Japan) and public support for entrance into the European Theatre (once again, more conspiracy theories).
    I always thought Yamamoto planned on getting the carriers there, but it was sheer luck that they went north on exercises. You make it seem that they placed no thought on getting the carriers.



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    Re: Remember Pearl Harbor

    Quote Originally Posted by CyLoboClone View Post
    I always thought Yamamoto planned on getting the carriers there, but it was sheer luck that they went north on exercises. You make it seem that they placed no thought on getting the carriers.
    Obviously they would have taken them out if they were there. However, Yamamoto was pretty much quoted saying that the battleships were the primary target because he thought those were what would turn the tide of the war. He was wrong.

    I'm just saying they flat out ignored the the fuel stores and depot shops - the stuff that actually would have crippled the Pacific fleet regardless of how many ships they sank at Pearl Harbor. And as it stands, the Navy was actually able to save a lot of ships the Japanese sunk at Pearl Harbor and recommission them for the war.


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    Re: Remember Pearl Harbor

    Quote Originally Posted by CyLoboClone View Post
    I always thought Yamamoto planned on getting the carriers there, but it was sheer luck that they went north on exercises. You make it seem that they placed no thought on getting the carriers.
    If you read the Wikipedia article, the Japanese knew the carriers were not in the harbor and proceeded with the attack anyway. Would they have attacked them had they been there? Of course. But the Japanese attacked knowing full well they were not there and thought destroying the battleships would be enough to cripple our fleet.



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    Re: Remember Pearl Harbor

    Quote Originally Posted by jdoggivjc View Post
    Obviously they would have taken them out if they were there. However, Yamamoto was pretty much quoted saying that the battleships were the primary target because he thought those were what would turn the tide of the war. He was wrong.

    I'm just saying they flat out ignored the the fuel stores and depot shops - the stuff that actually would have crippled the Pacific fleet regardless of how many ships they sank at Pearl Harbor. And as it stands, the Navy was actually able to save a lot of ships the Japanese sunk at Pearl Harbor and recommission them for the war.
    Also from the Wikipedia article and other sources, these other locations were supposedly targets of the rumored 3rd wave of the attack, which never happened. Yamamoto feared heavy losses in a 3rd wave (the US anti-aircraft was now up and running and had performed admirably during the second wave), he also feared a US counter-attack as his fleet was still very close to the harbor and also they were running very low on fuel and feared not being able to make it back to Japan if they didn't leave immediately. These facts and Yamamota believed they had inflicted enough damage, caused him to head for home without ordering a third wave. The Japanese military doctrine of the time prioritized preserving their own fleet over delivering a death blow to the enemy.



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    Re: Remember Pearl Harbor

    Quote Originally Posted by ruxCYtable View Post
    Also from the Wikipedia article and other sources, these other locations were supposedly targets of the rumored 3rd wave of the attack, which never happened. Yamamoto feared heavy losses in a 3rd wave (the US anti-aircraft was now up and running and had performed admirably during the second wave), he also feared a US counter-attack as his fleet was still very close to the harbor and also they were running very low on fuel and feared not being able to make it back to Japan if they didn't leave immediately. These facts and Yamamota believed they had inflicted enough damage, caused him to head for home without ordering a third wave. The Japanese military doctrine of the time prioritized preserving their own fleet over delivering a death blow to the enemy.
    Bet now they wish they had delivered the death blow and risked heavier losses and/or having to call in the refueling ships a couple hundred miles from shore. Tokyo might not have been firebombed and Hiroshima and Nagasaki not turned into science experiments...


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    Re: Remember Pearl Harbor

    They also did not know Cuba Gooding Jr., Ben Afflack, and Josh Harnett would all be there to whip there *****.

    In all seriousness did anyone see that special about finding the mini submarine that the UN Navy shot before the attack. It was cool when they were searching for it.


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