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  1. #1
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    Key to ISU success? DEPTH

    We will never be able to recruit the players that OU, Texas, OSU, and A&M recruit. It is simply never going to happen. Sure we will be able to land a 4 star player here or there. Beat out Okie State for a recruit every now and than. But top to bottom, they will always out recruit us.

    So how can we compete with them? Depth! We need to get to the point where our program can redshirt guys like AJ Klein and Jake Knott instead of using them as true freshman. Where if a player goes down with an injury we have a couple guys behind them that are capable of playing. Where we can put backups in at times to give the starters a rest and not have to worry about missing a step. Right now I bet our players are tired and beat up. And we have nobody that we can put in to give them a breather. We have to build up depth at every position. It also makes the players compete even more because there are more guys to fight with for playing time.

    I think that Rhoads is doing a great job of starting to build the depth that has been missing since McCarney's last 3 recruiting classes and we are 2-3 years away from really seeing it pay off.



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    Re: Key to ISU success? DEPTH

    This is Chizbangs's fault that so many people bombed out of the recruiting classes.


    Let my Fred's Posse Ride: Georges, Naz, Hogue, Bryce, Nader, Monte, Matt, and McKay.

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    Re: Key to ISU success? DEPTH

    [QUOTE=Wesley;1938783]This is Chizbangs's fault that so many people bombed out of the recruiting

    More, bigger, faster



  4. #4
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    Re: Key to ISU success? DEPTH

    Quote Originally Posted by Wesley View Post
    This is Chizbangs's fault that so many people bombed out of the recruiting classes.
    Between Chizik and Dan Mac we have been playing catch up in trying to rebuild depth.



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    Re: Key to ISU success? DEPTH

    Quote Originally Posted by Clones85' View Post
    Between Chizik and Dan Mac we have been playing catch up in trying to rebuild depth.
    Much of this is caused by 2 coaching changes in short succession. Both of the classes after coaching changes were put together late and generally have more washouts and recruiting misses. That has hurt us badly, which makes sense.



  6. #6
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    Re: Key to ISU success? DEPTH

    Quote Originally Posted by CloneIce View Post
    Much of this is caused by 2 coaching changes in short succession. Both of the classes after coaching changes were put together late and generally have more washouts and recruiting misses. That has hurt us badly, which makes sense.
    We had poor depth before Dan left. He had washouts a lot towards the end of his career which led to the poor seasons, which led to him leaving.

    It's been a while since we had good depth at ISU. If we want to be a successful program we have to get back to that. We need to be fresher than other teams during games. When you are less athletic and tired, you are in a lot of trouble



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    Re: Key to ISU success? DEPTH

    Quote Originally Posted by Clones85' View Post
    We will never be able to recruit the players that OU, Texas, OSU, and A&M recruit. It is simply never going to happen. Sure we will be able to land a 4 star player here or there. Beat out Okie State for a recruit every now and than. But top to bottom, they will always out recruit us.

    So how can we compete with them? Depth! We need to get to the point where our program can redshirt guys like AJ Klein and Jake Knott instead of using them as true freshman. Where if a player goes down with an injury we have a couple guys behind them that are capable of playing. Where we can put backups in at times to give the starters a rest and not have to worry about missing a step. Right now I bet our players are tired and beat up. And we have nobody that we can put in to give them a breather. We have to build up depth at every position. It also makes the players compete even more because there are more guys to fight with for playing time.

    I think that Rhoads is doing a great job of starting to build the depth that has been missing since McCarney's last 3 recruiting classes and we are 2-3 years away from really seeing it pay off.
    I think our two blowout losses this year have a couple of things in common: facing a balanced offense, and too many 3 and outs on offense. I think Wally can put together a scheme to limit a one dimensional offense, but we just don't have enough depth and/or talent to slow a balanced attack. Add on top of that our offense not staying on the field long, and the defense becomes too worn out to do anything.

    Right now we MAYBE have one guy on the defensive line that is playing at an average Big XII level. Everyone else still has developing to do, or just isn't going to be the answer. The corner's are adequate, but not good enough without help from the DL. The linebackers may have the talent, but are too inexperienced. We're thin almost everywhere.

    The jury is still out on whether CPR is fixing this issue or not. I think a big indicator will be how many of the recruits from this past year who are not currently on the team (Mattison, Nelson, etc.) actually make it to ISU.



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    Re: Key to ISU success? DEPTH

    Quote Originally Posted by Clones85' View Post
    We will never be able to recruit the players that OU, Texas, OSU, and A&M recruit. It is simply never going to happen. Sure we will be able to land a 4 star player here or there. Beat out Okie State for a recruit every now and than. But top to bottom, they will always out recruit us.

    So how can we compete with them? Depth! We need to get to the point where our program can redshirt guys like AJ Klein and Jake Knott instead of using them as true freshman. Where if a player goes down with an injury we have a couple guys behind them that are capable of playing. Where we can put backups in at times to give the starters a rest and not have to worry about missing a step. Right now I bet our players are tired and beat up. And we have nobody that we can put in to give them a breather. We have to build up depth at every position. It also makes the players compete even more because there are more guys to fight with for playing time.

    I think that Rhoads is doing a great job of starting to build the depth that has been missing since McCarney's last 3 recruiting classes and we are 2-3 years away from really seeing it pay off.
    It can be hard to build up quality depth on a sub-par football team.
    You can sell playing time to the starter, but what do you sell to the backups?
    Not saying that is all of our problem, because there are mulitple factors, but its part of it.


    "Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion man"

  9. #9
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    Re: Key to ISU success? DEPTH

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyhart View Post
    It can be hard to build up quality depth on a sub-par football team.
    You can sell playing time to the starter, but what do you sell to the backups?
    Not saying that is all of our problem, because there are mulitple factors, but its part of it.
    No doubt it needs to be quality depth. You always sell PT IMO. You tell them they can play early if they come in ready. Most kids aren't.

    We don't have many freshman getting a lot of PT right now. So what did the coaches sell to the players that aren't playing muc to get them here?



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    The Other Thing About Depth

    It creates competition which motivates playes to improve. Quality 2's make the 1's better. Then when it comes times for the 1's to graduate- a program reloads instead of rebuilding.

    I hate to say it, but it might be 2012 before we will be able to tell if Rhoad's as a recruiter has been a success.



  11. #11
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    Re: The Other Thing About Depth

    Quote Originally Posted by isucy86 View Post
    It creates competition which motivates playes to improve. Quality 2's make the 1's better. Then when it comes times for the 1's to graduate- a program reloads instead of rebuilding.

    I hate to say it, but it will be 2012 before we will be able to tell if Rhoad's as a recruiter has been a success.
    Fixed



  12. #12
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    Re: Key to ISU success? DEPTH

    I completely agree about depth, and the way to get quality depth is to have a lot of guys that you've been developing in the program for 4-5 years. That isn't the case right now. Here's a breakdown of our scholarship roster by which class they were part of:

    2006 (Mac's last class): 7
    2007 (transition class): 4
    2008 (Chizik's full class): 19
    2009 (transition class): 21
    2010 (Rhoads' full class): 25
    Former walk-ons: 9

    You can see several things from this. The first is that we have only 11 fourth and fifth year players that were recruited on scholarship. That small number from those two classes is the reason we have nine former walk-ons on scholarship.

    Second, you see solid evidence that a school like Iowa State needs to rely on experienced players. Nine of the eleven players from the 2006 and 2007 classes are starters, another starts off and on, and two 5th year senior former walk-ons also start.

    Third, you see how little continuity there has been in the development of these players. Not only do we have a small number of 4th and 5th year players, but they've been under two or three coaches, all of whom had different philosophies.

    You fix these problems with coaching continuity, identifying the right guys for your system, player retention, and player development. There is a light at the end of the tunnel. Here is what the class breakdown will look like for next year, minus a player here or there due to attrition:

    2006: 1 (Patrick Neal, grayshirt)
    2007: 2
    2008: 19
    2009: 20
    2010: 25
    2011: ?
    Former walk-ons: 2

    That's 22 fourth and fifth year players, double what we have now. I'm sure a couple of them will leave in the offseason because it happens every year, but we're still going to be a considerably more experienced team. And we'll be even more experienced in 2012. This thing is headed in the right direction.



  13. #13
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    Re: Key to ISU success? DEPTH

    Quote Originally Posted by cyfan15 View Post
    I completely agree about depth, and the way to get quality depth is to have a lot of guys that you've been developing in the program for 4-5 years. That isn't the case right now. Here's a breakdown of our scholarship roster by which class they were part of:

    2006 (Mac's last class): 7
    2007 (transition class): 4
    2008 (Chizik's full class): 19
    2009 (transition class): 21
    2010 (Rhoads' full class): 25
    Former walk-ons: 9

    You can see several things from this. The first is that we have only 11 fourth and fifth year players that were recruited on scholarship. That small number from those two classes is the reason we have nine former walk-ons on scholarship.

    Second, you see solid evidence that a school like Iowa State needs to rely on experienced players. Nine of the eleven players from the 2006 and 2007 classes are starters, another starts off and on, and two 5th year senior former walk-ons also start.

    Third, you see how little continuity there has been in the development of these players. Not only do we have a small number of 4th and 5th year players, but they've been under two or three coaches, all of whom had different philosophies.

    You fix these problems with coaching continuity, identifying the right guys for your system, player retention, and player development. There is a light at the end of the tunnel. Here is what the class breakdown will look like for next year, minus a player here or there due to attrition:

    2006: 1 (Patrick Neal, grayshirt)
    2007: 2
    2008: 19
    2009: 20
    2010: 25
    2011: ?
    Former walk-ons: 2

    That's 22 fourth and fifth year players, double what we have now. I'm sure a couple of them will leave in the offseason because it happens every year, but we're still going to be a considerably more experienced team. And we'll be even more experienced in 2012. This thing is headed in the right direction.

    you are very smart...I wish others here on the site would realise that it will take 2-3 years to see the full CPR result.


    Carrying the banner for ISU.


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    Re: Key to ISU success? DEPTH

    Quote Originally Posted by Wesley View Post
    This is Chizbangs's fault that so many people bombed out of the recruiting classes.
    It is easy to put all the blame on chizdick but a lot falls on DMac as well. his last couple of classes really flamed


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