Random Thoughts on all things Football Tuesday
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    Random Thoughts on all things Football Tuesday

    Finally over the fact that Iowa whipped us - Some positive points to ponder:
    1) For all of the disparity widening talk between Iowa and ISU – nothing new here – there was a short period when Iowa was down and we got some recruits they may have wanted – in fact its probably fair to say we got a 50-50 level on the top instate guys instead of the traditional 30-70. My take is Iowa’s success = greater success Nationally for their own recruiting and we may pick up a couple in state kids in that process otherwise that would have gone straight to Iowa – also we will gain some success getting kids that want to “play right away” vs waiting – which is our traditional approach going up against the big boys in the Big 12. Also it guarantees a national TV date and a full stadium. When we do beat them gets us some national publicity. Iowa has shown they are beatable in the non-conference – but they are great this year – give them credit for being great and lets move on.
    2) Nebraska and Colorado leaving = two less schools recruiting in the Big 12 Territory = an opening for ISU. Perhaps this point has been underemphasized. Nebraska may find itself on an island in recruiting for a transition period – we need to take advantage.
    3) ISU’s Short Term Formula for Success – beat the teams you can beat and scratch your way into bowl games. Bowl games help recruiting. This is what Mac was able to accomplish. Fans grew tired of losing consistently to every ranked opponent and missing a conf title by field goals in consecutive years but it will take better players and consistency in Coaching to surpass this level of success in the future.
    4) Long Term Formula for Success – retain CPR and Top Assistant Talent, win a game or two per year you are not supposed to win, improve recruiting by competing for more of the top Big 12 Players in the footprint.
    5) In Conference Rival – we need one – and it needs to be Missouri - being rivals with KState doesn’t do much for the program. We need to own KState and Kansas and compete with Missouri to be the best team (with Nebraska gone) from the Northern States. We were close to doing just that under Mac – this needs to be a priority – if we can make this game meaningful year in and year out – move it to Kansas City and play it the last game of the year. If Nebraska-Iowa is inevitable, its very important we establish interest and following of Iowa State-Missouri Missouri would probably say Kansas is their rival – but beating them in football at least 50% of the time can only help to make it relevant. Find a Sponsor and Promote it if the Cy-Hawk Series ceases.
    6) Out of Conference Rival- I like the Iowa Game and I don’t think it is going anywhere - but if it does, we need to replace them with a non-conference rival – Minnesota is the best candidate –play Minnesota in every sport – find a sponsor to set a Cyclone-Gopher Series and promote it. ISU fans will travel to Minnesota – it should be a TV game, should be winnable most years and gives us another strong base for recruiting, particularly in Basketball.
    7) The season is far from Over – I see anywhere from 5-7 to 7-5. No game is a must win, the Clones proved that by beating Nebraska last year, but wins vs Kstate and UNI make the bowl game far more likely, split Tech and Utah, hope you are still healthy after Oklahoma and Texas, Split Kansas and Nebraska and win out for 7-5 or Split for Colorado/Missouri for 6-6. Of course the margin for error is extremely small and with any more key injuries – we could be an outsider looking in – but the loss against Iowa has no bearing on our potential to have a good year and there is no bigger game on the schedule than this one – Beat KState and Go Cyclones!



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    Re: Random Thoughts on all things Football Tuesday

    Great post.



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    Re: Random Thoughts on all things Football Tuesday

    Also people forget Iowa has around 26 seniors on that squad, we have 4 seniors on our whole starting defense and 6 on offense. This reminds me of ISU in 1999, talent and wisdom can equal great things.



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    Re: Random Thoughts on all things Football Tuesday

    Quote Originally Posted by justcynn View Post
    Finally over the fact that Iowa whipped us - Some positive points to ponder:
    1) For all of the disparity widening talk between Iowa and ISU – nothing new here – there was a short period when Iowa was down and we got some recruits they may have wanted – in fact its probably fair to say we got a 50-50 level on the top instate guys instead of the traditional 30-70. My take is Iowa’s success = greater success Nationally for their own recruiting and we may pick up a couple in state kids in that process otherwise that would have gone straight to Iowa – also we will gain some success getting kids that want to “play right away” vs waiting – which is our traditional approach going up against the big boys in the Big 12. Also it guarantees a national TV date and a full stadium. When we do beat them gets us some national publicity. Iowa has shown they are beatable in the non-conference – but they are great this year – give them credit for being great and lets move on.
    2) Nebraska and Colorado leaving = two less schools recruiting in the Big 12 Territory = an opening for ISU. Perhaps this point has been underemphasized. Nebraska may find itself on an island in recruiting for a transition period – we need to take advantage.
    3) ISU’s Short Term Formula for Success – beat the teams you can beat and scratch your way into bowl games. Bowl games help recruiting. This is what Mac was able to accomplish. Fans grew tired of losing consistently to every ranked opponent and missing a conf title by field goals in consecutive years but it will take better players and consistency in Coaching to surpass this level of success in the future.
    4) Long Term Formula for Success – retain CPR and Top Assistant Talent, win a game or two per year you are not supposed to win, improve recruiting by competing for more of the top Big 12 Players in the footprint.
    5) In Conference Rival – we need one – and it needs to be Missouri - being rivals with KState doesn’t do much for the program. We need to own KState and Kansas and compete with Missouri to be the best team (with Nebraska gone) from the Northern States. We were close to doing just that under Mac – this needs to be a priority – if we can make this game meaningful year in and year out – move it to Kansas City and play it the last game of the year. If Nebraska-Iowa is inevitable, its very important we establish interest and following of Iowa State-Missouri Missouri would probably say Kansas is their rival – but beating them in football at least 50% of the time can only help to make it relevant. Find a Sponsor and Promote it if the Cy-Hawk Series ceases.
    6) Out of Conference Rival- I like the Iowa Game and I don’t think it is going anywhere - but if it does, we need to replace them with a non-conference rival – Minnesota is the best candidate –play Minnesota in every sport – find a sponsor to set a Cyclone-Gopher Series and promote it. ISU fans will travel to Minnesota – it should be a TV game, should be winnable most years and gives us another strong base for recruiting, particularly in Basketball.
    7) The season is far from Over – I see anywhere from 5-7 to 7-5. No game is a must win, the Clones proved that by beating Nebraska last year, but wins vs Kstate and UNI make the bowl game far more likely, split Tech and Utah, hope you are still healthy after Oklahoma and Texas, Split Kansas and Nebraska and win out for 7-5 or Split for Colorado/Missouri for 6-6. Of course the margin for error is extremely small and with any more key injuries – we could be an outsider looking in – but the loss against Iowa has no bearing on our potential to have a good year and there is no bigger game on the schedule than this one – Beat KState and Go Cyclones!
    1. I have become convinced that beating Iowa gains us nothing. Absolutely nothing. In the early 2000's we were dominating the series. Did we get a lot of national pub for it? No. Did we get a huge boost in our fanbase or instate recruiting? No. Short of some 15 year win streak where we own Iowa and Iowa is having losing season after losing season, I don't see us getting much out of this. And I just don't see that happening.

    2. I don't see this really helping our recruiting. I think CU recruits more out west anyway, so no big change there. And as for NU, how often do we ever go head to head with them for recruits? And considering they are basically in a Big Ten West division, they aren't going to disappear geographically as much as CU may. So I really don't see this helping us much either.

    3. Agreed.

    4. Agreed.

    5. Missouri isn't going to happen. This has been a trophy game for years already. I didn't know that until I saw it in like NCAA Football 2005. I work with several alums that when I mentioned it had never even heard of it. Living in Kansas City, I can tell you the MU KU is huge. There is a lot of bad blood between the fanbases, and I would say they are probably more obsessed than ISU Iowa. The Border war is huge for both schools, there is tons of history behind it, and ISU will never ever ever take the place as Mizzou's major in conference rival, no matter how competitive things are on the field. KSU is really our only option as they are the only other old Big 8 school without a primary conference rival.

    6. If the Iowa game went away, the reasons it went away would still apply to Minnesota. If the Big 12 and Big 10 go to 9 conference games, teams may want to soften up their schedule in non-con to compensate. If Iowa wants to drop us to do this, or we want to drop them, then why would we start up with Minnesota?

    7. I think the kool-aid was flowing a little too freely around here in the pre-season. I wouldn't put Utah or NU in a toss up category based on what I have seen so far. And I don't know that TT has regressed as far as I had hoped with their coaching change. I'm pulling back from a 6-6 prediction for more like 4-8 or 5-7.



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    Re: Random Thoughts on all things Football Tuesday

    I like that you haven't given up on the team like many other posters have. Great post.



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    Re: Random Thoughts on all things Football Tuesday

    Aeroclone - you are probably right on Missouri-KU, still need to compete with them to be the football power of the North - Kstate isn't a natural rivalry - they don't want to play in KC and apparently KC doesn't want the game due to lack of interest. to be football relevant - we need to consistently beat the kansas schools and split wtih Mizzouri. This will help steer more TX recruits to Iowa State vs Kansas Schools. Beating Iowa was good for the program - it provided a rallying point for the fan base and I would argue it did create new fans - just look in the elementary scools - when we were beating Iowa consistently - there were a lot more ISU jerseys on young boys than there are now! Nationally - both teams weren't that good - but Seneca beating Iowa as an example did create some national exposure. Too soon to tell what color the Kool Aid is. We have one good performance and one very poor against an excellent team - this weekend will tell us a lot more about our team



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    Re: Random Thoughts on all things Football Tuesday

    Quote Originally Posted by UNIGuy4Cy View Post
    Also people forget Iowa has around 26 seniors on that squad, we have 4 seniors on our whole starting defense and 6 on offense. This reminds me of ISU in 1999, talent and wisdom can equal great things.
    We just looked less potent on both sides of the line than last year with the same game. Last year, we could point to the turnovers, but this year was a steamrolling. The three interceptions were a footnote to the first half. The multi play drives took the emotion out of the game by the end the first quarter. We were taken to the woodshed.


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    Re: Random Thoughts on all things Football Tuesday

    Running away from the Iowa series, as well as conceding the top in-state recruits to them, does nothing to advance our program. On the contrary, it stunts it.
    Also, we don't need one specific "rival" in our conference. Look around - Penn State doesn't have one. Neither does Arkansas. Neither does LSU.



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    Re: Random Thoughts on all things Football Tuesday

    Quote Originally Posted by Tornado man View Post
    Running away from the Iowa series, as well as conceding the top in-state recruits to them, does nothing to advance our program. On the contrary, it stunts it.
    Sorry, but that's total BS. Iowa has nothing to do with our recruiting or advancing our program. Not a damn thing.

    Why did ISU start to get some recognition and a little larger fan following in the early and mid-2000's? Because we were beating Iowa? Hardly. It's because we were winning more games, going to bowl games, and competing for the division title in our conference.

    Playing (and beating) Iowa does nothing to enhance our program, we've proven that. On the flip side, not playing Iowa won't do anything to detract from our program either.

    Our program is in our own hands, and it starts with winning some damn football games.



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    Re: Random Thoughts on all things Football Tuesday

    Quote Originally Posted by justcynn View Post
    Aeroclone - you are probably right on Missouri-KU, still need to compete with them to be the football power of the North - Kstate isn't a natural rivalry - they don't want to play in KC and apparently KC doesn't want the game due to lack of interest. to be football relevant - we need to consistently beat the kansas schools and split wtih Mizzouri. This will help steer more TX recruits to Iowa State vs Kansas Schools. Beating Iowa was good for the program - it provided a rallying point for the fan base and I would argue it did create new fans - just look in the elementary scools - when we were beating Iowa consistently - there were a lot more ISU jerseys on young boys than there are now! Nationally - both teams weren't that good - but Seneca beating Iowa as an example did create some national exposure. Too soon to tell what color the Kool Aid is. We have one good performance and one very poor against an excellent team - this weekend will tell us a lot more about our team
    Certainly agree that we need to be beating KSU and KU consistently and competing with Mizzou year in and year out. If you look back at it, like 2/3 conference wins in the DMac era were over KU and Baylor. He made his career here by going 3-1 or 4-0 non-conference and then picking off a couple Big 12 bottom feeders to get to a bowl. That should be the first steps for us now, getting to a bowl game consistently.

    As for recruiting benefits of beating the Kansas schools, is there really much to that? Do KU and KSU traditionally have more Texas talent on the roster than we do? I guess I don't follow recruiting closely enough to know where we fall in the pecking order in Texas other than we get whoever UT, aTm, TT, and OU don't want.



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    Re: Random Thoughts on all things Football Tuesday

    Quote Originally Posted by UNIGuy4Cy View Post
    Also people forget Iowa has around 26 seniors on that squad, we have 4 seniors on our whole starting defense and 6 on offense. This reminds me of ISU in 1999, talent and wisdom can equal great things.
    Why are you comparing the number of seniors on Iowa's entire roster to the number in ISU's starting lineup? Iowa has 11 senior starters. ISU has 10.



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    Re: Random Thoughts on all things Football Tuesday

    Quote Originally Posted by CarolinaCy View Post
    Sorry, but that's total BS. Iowa has nothing to do with our recruiting or advancing our program. Not a damn thing.

    Why did ISU start to get some recognition and a little larger fan following in the early and mid-2000's? Because we were beating Iowa?
    Uh, how about...yeah? When we were beating the Hawks, we had lots more fans at Cyclone Club outings. Enthusiasm was higher. Now instead, we draw 75 people at a Taligate Tour event in Harlan. Ask anyone there what the numbers were back in the early 2000's.
    This board represents only a fraction of of our total fan base. Breaking news: our "rival" is not Mizzou, or K-State, or KU - it's Iowa. Like it or not.



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    Re: Random Thoughts on all things Football Tuesday

    Quote Originally Posted by Tornado man View Post
    Uh, how about...yeah? When we were beating the Hawks, we had lots more fans at Cyclone Club outings. Enthusiasm was higher. Now instead, we draw 75 people at a Taligate Tour event in Harlan. Ask anyone there what the numbers were back in the early 2000's.
    This board represents only a fraction of of our total fan base. Breaking news: our "rival" is not Mizzou, or K-State, or KU - it's Iowa. Like it or not.
    I agree with you, Iowa is our Rival - my point was IF for some reason the game is no longer played - we need to develop a new rival. Even though we lost - in terms of in state interest from casual fans - it was the biggest game of the year - anyone that went to the grocery store, church, soccer games, what have you saw that. Rivals make College Football interesting. Iowa State needs a game like this to keep its fans interested - right now that is Iowa and I don't think it will change anytime soon but if it does we need a plan to try and replace it.



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    Re: Random Thoughts on all things Football Tuesday

    Quote Originally Posted by Tornado man View Post
    Uh, how about...yeah? When we were beating the Hawks, we had lots more fans at Cyclone Club outings. Enthusiasm was higher. Now instead, we draw 75 people at a Taligate Tour event in Harlan. Ask anyone there what the numbers were back in the early 2000's.
    This board represents only a fraction of of our total fan base. Breaking news: our "rival" is not Mizzou, or K-State, or KU - it's Iowa. Like it or not.
    While I agree with most of what you said, you're complaining about drawing 75 people from Harlan? That be like complaining about drawing 5,000 people from the Quad Cities...


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    Re: Random Thoughts on all things Football Tuesday

    Quote Originally Posted by Tornado man View Post
    Uh, how about...yeah? When we were beating the Hawks, we had lots more fans at Cyclone Club outings. Enthusiasm was higher. Now instead, we draw 75 people at a Taligate Tour event in Harlan. Ask anyone there what the numbers were back in the early 2000's.
    This board represents only a fraction of of our total fan base. Breaking news: our "rival" is not Mizzou, or K-State, or KU - it's Iowa. Like it or not.
    Let me put it to you this way, what was more of a benefit to Iowa's program in the 80s and 90s, beating ISU 15 times in a row or competing for conference titles and going to great bowl games?

    Who got the better end of the deal in 2002 - ISU by beating Iowa, or Iowa for winning a share of the Big Ten crown and playing in the Orange Bowl?



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